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gb 
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 19:24 
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Lord of Minecraft (2894)
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Well, thanks to Notch and his inability to be a real game programmer, all this has kind of stalled. I think we all thought we would have been nicely settled into the new server by now but evidently it was not meant to be.
This delay does come with benefits however. It appears that Notch has compacted what would have been 3 releases into 1 and so we will now get version 2.0 come Minecon. This means no more interruptions of service on the server to accommodate his incremental builds. The downside is that it means the Bukkit guys will have their work cut-out for them as they have to push through the changes of all 3 patches in one go. Upshot is that, come the release of 2.0, there will likely be a sizable delay while all the plugins are brought up to speed but then we should be left a lone for a good long while.

While this delay has been going on a number of things have been discussed and a number of changes are likely to be made to the original proposal I made. THE basic idea is still good but there will be some tweaking to the actual setup. I'll try and talk through these changes here and I've left the original proposal at the end of this page:

- We are still having the same sections to teh map - Bedlam, Homestead, Spawn and the Theme Zones - the difference is that we are going to have 2 separate maps. 1 map (1000x1000) will contain Bedlam and the other (3000x3000) will contain Homestead, Spawn and the Themes. The reason for this is to allow a different set of permissions in Bedlam so that we can use it for different purposes.
- The Stargate plugin is being abandoned. Its too big and unwieldy and has far more functions that in needs. In its place will be a system of boats and vehicles to take you between the zones. Now these vehicles will not actually move, obviously, but they are there to add a bit more charm to teh map. The basic idea is that outside Spawn City there are a number of docks. These docks will have a ship or transport built in them. Inside these vehicles will be a doorway that is a teleport. Stepping through the doorway will bring you to an identical vehicle at your destination.
For example: There is a large, flying galleon outside Spawn City right now. Stepping through the teleport arch in its hold takes you to an identical flying ship above Leo's castle (which not features docking spires). Each Theme will be able to pick its own vehicle to represent the zone.
- Spawn City is now built but we need a name for it - make with the suggestions! :D
- Bedlam and each of the Themes needs a spawn point - or rather a docking point and a vehicle. These are to be designed and built by the zone managers.
- The biggest change is to Homestead. Homestead will function exactly as before but you will not initially have permission to get into it. Any current members+ will of course be allowed in but guests will not. In order to gain access (as will be detailed on signs, in the MOTD and in the in-game FAQ) you will have to go to the forums, register and sign you agreement to a set of rules in a specified thread. Once they have done this, Guests will be promoted to an interim rank (name to be decided) that will have all the same permissions as Guests but with the addition that they can get into Homestead. If someone is found to be in breach of Homestead they will be stripped of their rank (this goes for Members too!) and they will no longer be able to access it.
- Theme zones will be as previously detailed. Anyone can walk into them but no one can build there without the permissions of the Zone Manager (and his/her team) and should someone repeatedly violate the rules in a zone, the Zone Manager can remove their Move permissions totally.
- Bedlam will still be a free for all but it may also be a place of banishment (except for those who use hacks of course). If someone cannot behave in the Themes or in Homestead, the only place they will be able to move is Bedlam (their Move flag can even be removed for Spawn if needed, trapping them in Bedlam permanently)

Plugins:
These are very much still up in the air. With all the changes and feet dragging of Notch, a lot of plugins have been abandoned. We will have to wait until after 2.0 is released and then see what plugins are available to us.

EDIT: an update on Bukkit. Current rumour (though it is far from confirmed) is that Notch will release version 1.0 at Minecon, finally bringing MC out of beta. The rumours go on to say that he has been working with the Bukkit team and that they will be ready to release a compatible build on the same day that 1.0 goes live so there might be very little waiting time after Minecon. Personally I will believe it when I see it but we can hope.



Old proposal:

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire


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nl 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 19:35 
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Hmm, maybe not Illiterate (18)
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I like the idea :D
But i have one question?
You said there was a part of the map without admins? So you mean griefing is there allowed?

Edit:
Cant you use protected glass for the walls? Because Bedrock isnt that nice in the landscape


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nl 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 19:39 
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Has no REAL life! (1240)
nice one Howard! :5:
I like the theme Idea and can't wait to get an idea to make something :mrgreen:
The no rules zone.. I'm not getting there :3
But, I like how people can ask for a new SUPPORTED theme ;P
Nicely done Howard, can't wait until it's on here.. :5:

EDIT: if you need help with building, I'm always here :3
-Pat

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<@UNICORN_XD> yes, having exams this week has made me stupid
Whiskers: Shoegaze music is great music to poop to - I feel like I've just fought an epic battle


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 19:40 
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Likes to type... (229)
Sounds acceptable :P

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gb 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 19:52 
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Has no REAL life! (1234)
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remcodd wrote:
But i have one question?
You said there was a part of the map without admins? So you mean griefing is there allowed?
No admins, no rules. Simple ^^

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us 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 20:04 
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Doesn't get out much (327)
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remcodd wrote:
I like the idea :D
But i have one question?
You said there was a part of the map without admins? So you mean griefing is there allowed?

Edit:
Cant you use protected glass for the walls? Because Bedrock isnt that nice in the landscape
Which part of "No rules, no admin – nothing." exactly is so confusing? I only wish lwc could be disabled there as well so stealing is as prevalent and everything else.

The wall isn't bedrock... "[from] bedrock to sky, protected walls", so walls could be anything.

I'm loving this plan. It would seem the admin work would be drastically reduced, unless everybody who whines about rules and restrictions decides they really want them and stay on the admin'd side after all, which of course I believe is exactly what will happen.

There is nothing at all in this new plan I find objectionable except lwc exists in the free4all area.

Howard... a high fucking five here for you. I think this is as close to satisfying everybody on the server, including admins, anyone will ever get, outside of individual worlds for everybody, for which we have singleplayer, right?

_________________
Mincrafters never age, their stones just turn to cobble.


Last edited by OneYankeeRebel on 15 Sep 2011, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.

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cl 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 20:12 
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Has no REAL life! (1308)
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I like it! ^_^ I'll probably only go to Bedlam when I need easy resources :twisted: but it does sound coolio...

Maybe that section should be a little smaller than the rest? I mean, I doubt a lot of people will build on a place where griefing is allowed... (We can check if this is true and then decide on a size limit.)

About the /home and /spawn, if Babel is removed (will it be?), I think /home should have no time restriction and there should be a /spawn that leads to the master stargate. If babel will still exist, I'm ok with completely removing /home and have a /spawn restriction...

About residences, what about limiting the residences to 2 per person, but not in size? I think this would be a good solution because people are not forced to live only in 1 place, but still have to leave room to other people. Maybe make the residence much more expensive, but give a 15x15 free residence to everyone? That way everyone can have a home, no matter if they're now or stuff, but people who will make massive stuff have to pay a lot for it; so there will be no huge crappy cities.

About additional plugins, well... IDK right now, I quite like how it is for players, and IDK what admin plugins you have, so I'll leave that part for admins to discuss.

So yeah, it seems like you actually managed to make everyone happy... I thought it couldn't be done. Congratulations. :D

On a final note, I agree with Yankee about the chest locking in Bedlam.

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de 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 20:24 
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So, if its basically a new map and you will put allready existing buildings into it then I suggest that you should render the terrain in 1.81 once to have all the advantages. Its still usable in 1.73 then.

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nl 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 20:26 
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Has no REAL life! (1240)
will this map be in 1.8 or 1.7.3 btw? :3

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<@UNICORN_XD> i are a goast
<@UNICORN_XD> yes, having exams this week has made me stupid
Whiskers: Shoegaze music is great music to poop to - I feel like I've just fought an epic battle


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 20:34 
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Lord of Minecraft (2894)
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OK, a few answers:

Babel is gone, along with Iron city. A Stargate network will be in its place. Bedlam and Homestead will have a central (protected) hub each that leads back to spawn. The Themes zones all also each have a hub that leads to spawn.

There is no real difference between 1.7 and 1.8x maps. Yes yes, rivers and blah blah blah - I don't give a wet one. As is, to save moving 50 million blocks to a new map, I plan to use the current map but massively regenerate as much of it as possible. This will force the 1.8x biomes and landscape into the old map

As Yankee correctly points out the dividing wall will be actual, designed walls. They will look nice.

A final point - I aim to bring in a regional chat plugin. My hope is that bedlam, the Themes and Homestead can have their own channels while still maintaining a global channel and all the private chats and so on. Still working on this though.


As an aside that I missed - I would rather this was all implemented alongside 1.8 but it may take months for everything 1.8 related to settle down. We shall have to see how things go.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire


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nl 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 20:40 
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Has no REAL life! (1240)
[SpA]Howard wrote:
A final point - I aim to bring in a regional chat plugin. My hope is that bedlam, the Themes and Homestead can have their own channels while still maintaining a global channel and all the private chats and so on. Still working on this though.
Epic. :5:

_________________
<@UNICORN_XD> i are a goast
<@UNICORN_XD> yes, having exams this week has made me stupid
Whiskers: Shoegaze music is great music to poop to - I feel like I've just fought an epic battle


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us 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 21:21 
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Has no REAL life! (1700)
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I love this idea!! Really nothing else to say :)


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be 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 22:00 
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Has no REAL life! (1086)
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From what I've understood, you can only build in 1 region at a time right? No homes in multiple regions? Because you would be a turd to build in the HomeStead or Themed section and gather all you stuff in the Bedlam section.

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gb 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 22:06 
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Lord of Minecraft (2894)
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heldplayer wrote:
From what I've understood, you can only build in 1 region at a time right? No homes in multiple regions? Because you would be a turd to build in the HomeStead or Themed section and gather all you stuff in the Bedlam section.
No you can build where you like when you like. There are no periods of transition. If people chose to build and maintain a home in Homestead and yet go out into the wild of Bedlam or take part in a city build in the Theme section (need a name for the Theme sections as a whole!) then so be it.

Policing where people are would be impossible, particularly as the Admin team will be paying no attention to 3/4 of the map.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire


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us 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 22:35 
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Doesn't get out much (327)
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It is my greatest hope that all those who have chosen to annoy me, choose to inhabit Bedlam. *cue sinister music and evil laughter*

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Mincrafters never age, their stones just turn to cobble.


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dk 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 23:12 
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So long and thanks for all the fish! (1771)
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Do we have to make huge walls between each zone? Can't we just make a zoned border area, where noone can build, and which notifies you when walking through that you are entering a new zone?

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gb 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 23:33 
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Lord of Minecraft (2894)
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Spikespiegel wrote:
Do we have to make huge walls between each zone?

Yes. Absolutely.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 01:11 
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Pretty useless (69)
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As for the proposal itself, I think that this seems to be by far the most balanced way that has been offered to fulfill everyones wants and needs, I really like where its going; I'm loving the idea of the separated areas in the map.

Just wanting to clarify, from reading, I've gotten the impression that in the themed section, residence doesn't count for much, if anything. If this is the case, what would happen if somebody who had been given build permission and made something suddenly decided to destroy the build next door- the city manager can't be on all the time and ops don't cover that area. Would it just be the case that everyone has to work together to fix it (which isn't really a major problem), or will there a way to prevent or reverse the damage (sorry if i've missed a blatantly obvious answer to this- its late).

Either way, to me this seems to be the best solution currently available to satisfy the vast majority of people.

_________________
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au 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 01:31 
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As I said to you mumblers last night, sounds great. Howard, are you still going to have the gate to Bedlam obvious from spawn so that most of the guests will go there?? With the themed builds, I assume there would be multiple city managers for each city to cover different time zones of people? Overall, sounds amazing. Can't wait till its implemented!!

Cheers,
Sam

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cl 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 01:32 
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Has no REAL life! (1308)
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I assume theme owners will be active people, I doubt over 2 days will pass without him logging in... And if you seriously can't wait 2 days to get a minor problem solved...

In any case, AFAIK, grief is grief, and is ONLY allowed in Bedlam, Admins would still be able to ban and rollback damage in the themed section.

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pt 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 02:34 
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I think I'm going to make a gank in Bedlam ;P

In general it's a very good solution.

_________________
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"Never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"


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ca 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 02:44 
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This bedlam sounds like fun. I already have my plan of attack.


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us 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 03:45 
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Doesn't get out much (327)
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The themed area ("West World" the movie comes to mind) is up to city managers to admin as Howard had said "City Managers will be responsible for managing the entire zone, free from any assistance of the server’s Admin team."

It is possible the City Manager could maybe subzone for each building occupant for build rights, leaving the rest ungriefable. Howard could clarify.

"Move permissions, monsters and creatures MUST remain on for ALL zones at ALL times." insures outsiders may visit the themed builds and have the full minecraft mob experience while visiting.

_________________
Mincrafters never age, their stones just turn to cobble.


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us 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 03:58 
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Crap at posting (43)
I'm imagining Bedlam as a land of burning trees and tnt switches....sounds great!


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us 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 05:08 
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All awesome ideas Howard. I can just see myself forming an alliance in bedlam and dominating everyone with it. Or going rouge and ticking off most of the server with my skill with traps :twisted:


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ca 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 07:10 
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Doesn't get out much (377)
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Sounds awesome!
im just confused with this
[SpA]Howard wrote:
Policing where people are would be impossible, particularly as the Admin team will be paying no attention to 3/4 of the map.
We would still be watching out for griefers ans such in the themed zone would we not?

_________________
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au 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 07:41 
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pwetty picture
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1359/unledznr.jpg


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 08:37 
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Lord of Minecraft (2894)
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PetePorty wrote:
I assume theme owners will be active people, I doubt over 2 days will pass without him logging in... And if you seriously can't wait 2 days to get a minor problem solved...

In any case, AFAIK, grief is grief, and is ONLY allowed in Bedlam, Admins would still be able to ban and rollback damage in the themed section.

Wrong on both counts. City Managers are NOT ADMIN in any way. There will be no rollbacks in Themes builds. There will be no bans for actions taken in themed builds

Your theme, your bloody problem.

Destoned wrote:
Sounds awesome!
im just confused with this
[SpA]Howard wrote:
Policing where people are would be impossible, particularly as the Admin team will be paying no attention to 3/4 of the map.
We would still be watching out for griefers ans such in the themed zone would we not?
No - the admin are NOT to manage the Themed zones in any way at all. The City Managers will do this.

Admin will ONLY be involved (in an admin role) within Homestead.

Impulseuser wrote:
I'm imagining Bedlam as a land of burning trees and tnt switches....sounds great!
There is every chance I will ban TNT globally. You people cannot be trusted with it...

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire


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cl 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 08:49 
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Has no REAL life! (1308)
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In that case, maybe add a message when you enter a zone, so that when admins TP to people, they know whether or not to take action.

About TNT, yeah, it's pretty obvious it should be allowed in Bedlam, but... The lag it produces might make that impossible.

_________________
I'm new. Or Old. Either way, I'm too awesome for a sig right now.


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us 
 Post subject: Re: A Proposal
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2011, 13:06 
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Has no REAL life! (1700)
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PetePorty wrote:
In that case, maybe add a message when you enter a zone, so that when admins TP to people, they know whether or not to take action.

About TNT, yeah, it's pretty obvious it should be allowed in Bedlam, but... The lag it produces might make that impossible.
I think it would be good to have the chat say what zone we are in. Like before it said what world we were in, but it was always the same. lol

So like:
[Themed]GreatBuilder3
Then when i go into another zone it changes


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