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gb 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 13:26 
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Lord of Minecraft (2894)
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I’ve read and reread everyone’s opinions in the Poll Thread until I have gone slightly mad. Everyone is arguing around in circles, agreeing over things then changing their minds. Even more worrying is the certainty a lot of you have that some particularly changes need to be made, especially when those changes are, in my flatly expert opinion, bloody stupid changes.
What I am using this post for is, as the title suggest, my Hail Mary Pass. This is my last ditch attempt to get my views over to you in one, solid package, detailing everything that should and should not change. This is not a statement of how things will be, nor is it here to be fawned over and instantly agreed with ‘cos I posted it. I still want you lot to debate as much as you need to, to understand the whole picture and stop obsessing over a few crazed details. If, however, after reading this, enough people agree with it, I will add it to the poll and we will reset for one last time. If its not popular then we just go with whatever wins the poll, ok? Ok.

The Main Issues. These are the points that are the most contentious and are causing the most issues with the server:
- Bedlam. This map has turned into a Guests-only griefing zone and is driving everyone away.
- Transport. People want more of it
- Spawn City. Its too “complex” for new guys (apparently) and is largely unused after your first arrival.
- Registration. This hasn’t caused any where near as many issues as you guys think but is still seen as a problem.
- A new map. The single most uninformed and pointless idea but everyone is fixated on it.
- Boredom of the Ops. Even though my main goal with the last proposal was to make the life of Ops easier and even though I utterly succeeded in this, it is seen as a problem.

The Proposal

- Completely remove Bedlam and the Nether (we’ll return to the Nether issue later) but keep Hub.
- Remove most of the Theme Zones, keeping only those that are active and a few spares for events (Hunger Games) and maybe for future Themes.
- Regenerate the entire of Homestead. Fresh start with a fresh 1.3 map NO ONE keeps ANYTHING.
- Guests will still spawn for the first time in the Spawn City Bowl, but they will, once they have accepted the Rules, be teleported to…
- A new Spawn Town, built in the centre of what was Homestead. This will have basic amenities (to be decided when whoever builds it, builds it (DON’T ASK TO BUILD IT IN THIS THREAD!!!)). Spawn Town will also include a dedicated Player Market in the same style as Leo’s Castle had on the last map (but a bit bigger, arguably).
- Spawn City itself can be redesigned (lightly) and include more unique features to aid navigation, colour coding of floors, more signs and…
- A central, NPC market (make the shops work better essentially) to give basic supplies and a place to sell your stuff (also a place to sell Nether blocks if we go with not having a Nether). We would leave the Aurora in place to sell ultra-rare items.
- /spawn gets reactivated for everyone.
- /home is redesigned with a lower cooldown for everyone.
- Build 8 portals or boats Spawn City (if you can work out a system to direct people to the right boat) that link to portals scattered evenly over the map (much like Pizza and Green have previously suggested). It would be nicer if they were boats as portal gates stood in the middle of the city will just look crap. Between /spawn and these portals, anyone can get anywhere (This may have to be trialled as it WILL fuck up the economy)
- Everyone will build in the same map, whatever their rank.
- LWC will be available to ALL ranks but it will cost and cost a lot. LWC charging works that when you set the protection you are charged but when you /cremove the protection, you are refunded. If we set it so that every single protection costs, say, $2000, then it will be usable but it is worth your while to go around and undo the ones you no longer need. Payers that clearly appeared for a day and will never return will be purged from the Database weekly by SupOps. (as ever, LWC grief could be an issue but again, if someone wanders over and LWCs your chest/door/cat, why did you not LWC/Residence it first?)
- Residence will be available to all BUT not enforced. If you wanna enjoy the benefits of no grief, no mobs and no fire then Residence is for you. Each rank will have its own limits, same as always.
- LogBlock is dead, long live Guardian. The long awaited replacement for LogBlock is now here so rollbacks will still be possible. The exact details of this can be argued out but I would like to see a system whereby a player who does NOT protect their stuff with Residence/LWC can be offered a Rollback BUT it costs them money. A single, flat-fee payable to an admin account (you can argue over the amount) and you get your stuff back (though not stolen items).
- Registered rank. It stays but changes purpose. Everyone who spawn will be Guest and can use Residence, LWC and can build. If you take the time to go to our forums and register (make it more of a “hi may name is” thread, not what it is now) you can get (without process – you just get it) the Registered rank. This allowed you to create extra residences and gives you an increase in XP earned from Mobs plus you get a Registration kit (make it decent – diamond tools? Lots of Iron? I dunno – but you get the point). This can be announced via the auto-announce or a Dankirk style bot that responds to questions.
- Small note about the Nether. Either it is replaced by an admin shop that sells the blocks or it is a dedicated map with a dedicated portal to it like we currently have. It is simply not an option to let everyone build Nether Portals. Your choice which way you go with this. Obviously having the shops leaves us with one map and better performance but having another map...gives us a whole other map.

So, to sum up:
- Everyone is on one map.
- Everyone can protect their stuff
- Spawn is no longer an issue as you are TPd to a MUCH more simple Spawn Town when you first start but the City and its amenities are still there when you need them.
- Transport is solved as the map is divided into eighths and you have /spawn and a better /home
- Theme zones don’t need to be moved!
- As Homestead is being regenerated, you have virgin land to build on.
- As everyone is together and Residence is not enforced, griefing will return and keep the Admin team busy. No one is bored.

Final notes and some projects
To get this done, several project will need to be undertaken:
- Spawn City will need a face lift and its markets sorting out.
- The portals/boats will need to be built and installed.
- Spawn Town and it's market will need building.
- Homestead will need regenerating. This may have to be done "by hand" as the program I used for this in the past is dead.

So, plenty of work to go around.

There it is, my collected thoughts. Hope they are of some use to you but, as I say, if you don't care for them, say so here or vote for something else should this make it to the Poll.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire


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de 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 13:39 
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Completely clear Howard.
I think this should work. The idea of having guests back in the main world is perfect! No longer should we send them away, or have them wandering around in hub and complaining about the fact hey can't build.

This plan is just what the server needs.
As always I offer my help with stuff. Just ask.

regards,

hwin

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gb 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 14:40 
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We agree on a number of things so, I'm gonna take the chance of this thread to pick apart our differences if you don't mind. Though this is a post so it's happening regardless.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Bedlam. This map has turned into a Guests-only griefing zone and is driving everyone away.
Yup, let's get rid of it.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
Transport. People want more of it
No, I'm not really convinced of this. we've got 4 portals right now, a few more might not go amiss but that's not the fundamental issue, it's that the current transport system is wildly inefficient to use. Ilserlohn and Leos are never worth going to, Thunder island is in the middle of the sea that no-one is in and the Down Airship is necessarily in the middle of a desert no-one previously wanted to traverse as that was the only large blank space that was immediately obvious.

Once you get to the airship you have to walk around the vast spawn to get to one of the three other portals that are placed places no-one wants to go [until the addition of the market portal I'm not sure most people know is there].

More on this later pretty much.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Spawn City. Its too “complex” for new guys (apparently) and is largely unused after your first arrival.
Right, to resume. Spawn city is a beautiful failure. I don't think it's a co-incidence that it's by far our largest and also our least successful spawn. Even the apparently loathed original Iron City wasn't actively hampering not just guests but the server population as a whole. Sure, guests find it confusing, but they're going to find anything that isn't pressing the 'w' key and holding the left mouse button until they disappear into the core of the earth confusing. Even Iron City II had its share of guests who complained of being unable to get out because there was a single wall blocking their view of the straight run to freedom. My feeling is that when it comes at least to the area guests spawn [further quibbles later] in, we have to bow to the inevitability of their desire to run like cockroaches until they hit something. And that that doesn't have to be an impulse we cater for in our established player base.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Registration. This hasn’t caused any where near as many issues as you guys think but is still seen as a problem.
I have lost hours of my life to the registration process, I don't mind if it stays but by god it has to be no longer mandatory. I want to be able to tell children who are clearly unable to tie their own shoe laces to fuck off and not have their long term viability on the server hampered.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- A new map. The single most uninformed and pointless idea but everyone is fixated on it.
Natural urge, people want to set their builds into the soft pristine virgin fabric of a new world, unsullied by the worthless crap everyone else has built. We're not compelled to follow their wishes but if we want to keep the map we've currently got we have to bear in mind how full and sullied people believe the map to be, regardless of how much truth you feel there is to the accusation. Public opinion is never about truth.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Remove most of the Theme Zones, keeping only those that are active and a few spares for events (Hunger Games) and maybe for future Themes.
And the walls please.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Regenerate the entire of Homestead. Fresh start with a fresh 1.3 map NO ONE keeps ANYTHING.
How is this not a new map ? If the reason is "because we don't have to paste shit over", that's not a difference to 99% of the people currently voting for a new map, excepting that they lose their items. You might be opposed to twinkling or fervently believe in maoist equality, but it would be staggeringly little effort on our part to let people move over a portion of their possessions and would generate a lot of good will. People want their cake and to eat it to ? Will this is the internet, it's a digital cake, it doesn't cost us.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Guests will still spawn for the first time in the Spawn City Bowl, but they will, once they have accepted the Rules, be teleported to…
- A new Spawn Town, built in the centre of what was Homestead. This will have basic amenities (to be decided when whoever builds it, builds it (DON’T ASK TO BUILD IT IN THIS THREAD!!!)). Spawn Town will also include a dedicated Player Market in the same style as Leo’s Castle had on the last map (but a bit bigger, arguably).
OK, Re: Above about guests being mindless killing machines. I would like to actively dangle the irresistable sight of untilled soil and undestroyed buildings in front of the guests that first get the chance to race off into our beautiful world. The ground outside where ever guests first get the chance to interact with the world is going to be destroyed, no matter how large a zone we put around it, no matter what we do, we don't need to fight this. Let the guests who find a red mist descend across their vision when they see an undestroyed block charge off into a place we don't care about [we could even call it bedlam] but crucially connect that place to the network the rest of us will use.

How is that different to now ? Well no matter whether the guest goes straight into the earth or the side of someones house, or even they go the other way [either some fractionally less obvious direction or a res-d mansion within sight range containing the portal and important server info, anything really] their choice will always be the 'right' one. They won't be able to go somewhere where they're not joining people they can play with, and not coming to a place where they cannot build. Yes, this would be achieved by moving spawn to bedlam but I don't think, and I don't think you think, that that is enough.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Spawn City itself can be redesigned (lightly) and include more unique features to aid navigation, colour coding of floors, more signs and…
Nope, sorry. I really like Spawn City. I spent a long time flying around it back in the day trying to polish it up for everyone. I think it's the nicest spawn we've ever had. It's super impressive, but it's the least fit for purpose. I really think we have to get rid of it entirely. Sure, we can keep it around on the server, why not. But I don't think it fulfills its purpose as civic infrastructure and should be removed from the loop.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- A central, NPC market (make the shops work better essentially) to give basic supplies and a place to sell your stuff (also a place to sell Nether blocks if we go with not having a Nether). We would leave the Aurora in place to sell ultra-rare items.
Actually hadn't thought about where to put an NPC market. I can see the need for one. But it could be anywhere, we don't /have/ to put it in a building dedicated to something else. I've no feelings about this the more I think about it.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- /spawn gets reactivated for everyone.
Another 'whatever' people probably will whine less about the essentially pretty pointless spawn command if the transport network is more usable. [maaaaybe]
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Everyone will build in the same map, whatever their rank.
[/quote]

yup

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gb 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 14:56 
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Wow. That was crazed even by your standards. :shock: :lol:

Ok:
Transport. The number of portals and their location can be argued - I wasn't setting anything in stone there save to say it needs to be made better. Keep in mind that regenerating the South of the map produces a new map as the seed code will have changed so it will be totally different. If having the portals at Spawn City is an issue, move them to Spawn Town and make them much closer together?

Spawn City. It is a failure but only cos the players failed it. If it was re-purposed as a transport hub/NPC market/nexus to get to the arena and the Aurora then only those that wanted to be there would be there. I still believe it can work and act as an impressive thing with but a few design tweaks.

Registration. You address my list of faults, not my suggestions here. Do you agree with what I actually proposed? :?

The New Map issue. It is different as it means we can keep the Theme ZOnes, the Arena and other huge structures. I have argued against a new map as people are not clear on the harm this will cause, the benefit it will not bring and also because we don't have to reinvent the fucking wheel each server change. :18 This server was well designed: its failure was in its users - sorry but that is the truth. If people REALLY cannot bloody go ON without some stuff being moved over, we can build a storage area gain and they can lock some stuff in chests. As it will be the same physical map this time, it wont fail like the last Storage map.

Remove the wall? Yeah sure - I meant to add that too. Open up the map fully.

As to getting guests out into the thick of the server quickly: well that is up to the design of Spawn Town. It can be whatever you like. Hell, have the spawn OUTSIDE it so they can just romp off and fuck things up. I still would want them in the spawn bowl to start with and for the Rules to still be accepted. After that, TP them wherever the hell you like.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire


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gb 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 15:14 
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[SpA]Howard wrote:
Transport. The number of portals and their location can be argued - I wasn't setting anything in stone there save to say it needs to be made better. Keep in mind that regenerating the South of the map produces a new map as the seed code will have changed so it will be totally different. If having the portals at Spawn City is an issue, move them to Spawn Town and make them much closer together?
We can probably take this off the table right ? A plurality of people agree to keep portals. Exactly how many to have, exactly where to put them, that kind of detail is below the level of the vote. We're wasting our breathe talking about whether to open an egg round side or pointy side.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
Spawn City. It is a failure but only cos the players failed it. If it was re-purposed as a transport hub/NPC market/nexus to get to the arena and the Aurora then only those that wanted to be there would be there. I still believe it can work and act as an impressive thing with but a few design tweaks.
I'm ready to believe, but I'm a skeptic. I'd have to see it, hold it in my hands, maybe lick it.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
Registration. You address my list of faults, not my suggestions here. Do you agree with what I actually proposed? :?
Yeah, no, I agree, just grumbling.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
The New Map issue. It is different as it means we can keep the Theme ZOnes, the Arena and other huge structures. I have argued against a new map as people are not clear on the harm this will cause, the benefit it will not bring and also because we don't have to reinvent the fucking wheel each server change. :18 This server was well designed: its failure was in its users - sorry but that is the truth. If people REALLY cannot bloody go ON without some stuff being moved over, we can build a storage area gain and they can lock some stuff in chests. As it will be the same physical map this time, it wont fail like the last Storage map.
Distinction without a difference. If everyone votes for a new map [they pretty much have] and you regen the current one leaving certain stuff intact, no-one would ever know. It'd be like Star Trek Insurrection in reverse.
[SpA]Howard wrote:
As to getting guests out into the thick of the server quickly: well that is up to the design of Spawn Town. It can be whatever you like. Hell, have the spawn OUTSIDE it so they can just romp off and fuck things up. I still would want them in the spawn bowl to start with and for the Rules to still be accepted. After that, TP them wherever the hell you like.
I literally have no ideas of what an actual spawn would look like so I'm not really helping here, but I would like to put up a little proof of concept somewhere to show you what I mean. Stand by, as it were.

EDIT: I put a horrible model of what I was suggesting at /warp guestareablah

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Last edited by [SpA]Frimple on 19 Jun 2012, 15:52, edited 1 time in total.

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gb 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 15:37 
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Sounds good, but I really think Bedlam can work if it's protected and it could even be part of the same map. Make it small so it's easily looked after, with safezones. I think joining a server where you see people around building near each other is a sell point, but make sure that pvp is avoidable. If there's protection what's the point of homestead? Well everyone just loves walking out to the middle of nowhere to build things of beauty and then complain about lack of transport, and when they want to do that, they can register and leave Bedlam, as if it were a halfway house, it doesn't have to be a bad place.

Also I don't see why spawn needs extra functions, it's the spawn. People appear there, and then read the rules, that's all it really needs to do. Stuff like markets can be reserved for players to get together and build. Another idea I'm going to toss in for transport would be having home portals that link to a home or market stall you have in a city, you pay high rent for them, so they're not permanent, it just gives city residence some purpose and reason to use. Portals in general though should cost money to use.

As for a new map, I think I've just learnt that there never will be a permanent map. It will probably always be a case of almost filling a map, and then people wanting a shiney new one, I mean current one has been around for half a year? I don't think it's gone to waste, it just seems like the natual process of smp, especially with people leaving and new people joining. I mean I don't think there are any ideal servers out there, with long term maps, it is a failure of both the users and minecraft itself.


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 15:54 
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This seems almost similar to my proposed idea, except for keeping residences. Which I can fully understand why it should be kept.

As for the spawn, like to reiterate my idea, as it seems the only one out there.
bubbajim3 wrote:
First spawn
As we have now, new users end up in a giant bowl(maybe not a bowl in the new spawn) where they are forced to read the rules and accept them. This right here stops most griefers from continuing. They want to grief, not have to do a bunch of commands, they want to jump right in and destroy stuff. Once they accept the rules, they would be brought into the proposed spawn area.

Main spawn
This is the main spawn town, easy to leave from. The problem with the current spawn is the attention span of our users. They do not want a well-thought out spawn, they want a place to build. So, we give them a nice area to spawn and a large arched gate-like walkway. Towards the right (as I see it) should be an area to get basic food for a price that they spend their starter cash on. Towards the left, should an area to get some wooden tools. Outside that walkway is an area where they can build, explore and most importantly, survive. The real magic of the spawn is behind them, only noticeable to the ones who like to explore and get a feel of how the server runs before they go venturing out into the wilderness. This of course could be left to one’s own imagination.
In the below hidden tag is a quote from me before on how I believe the spawn should be as well. Meeting requirements from both ideas coincide easily.
Quote:
I have a few ideas for the spawn to be redone. The current spawn is, fucking amazing, but it has minor flaws that makes it horrible. Comparing Iron City and the current spawn, what's different other then Iron City being almost shit? Symmetry. The current spawn is a symmetrical circle with all parts exactly the same. That was extremely confusing for guests, admins and myself. If I didn't have flying capabilities to fly to the other side because I went the wrong way, I would of disliked it even more.

The new spawn should be nicely build, not just Iron and Diamond blocks thrown together. But, we should also try to keep sections of spawn not exactly the same on each side. Iron City was easy to distinguish; In the front there was the portal room to Babel, behind was the market, to the left was public furnaces and rooms, right was that maze thingy. We can take these same concepts into our new spawn while having an amazing build, except maybe the maze :P. The buildings should be the same theme, but in different shapes and designs. Take Islerlohn and Leo's city(The central parts of both); Each building was it's individual structure and allowed every building to be easily distinguishable.
As you can tell, this only maps out the direct area they spawn in. Behind could be the market or anything else that is proposed.


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gb 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 16:47 
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GB3 - as I said, my idea in the OP is a combination of other ideas, including yours.

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be 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 17:35 
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Warning: this wall of text and quotes will not fit your screen.

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us 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 20:11 
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Howard, this is the post I've been waiting for: a clear plan of action, and I agree with 99% of it.

But why give everybody /spawn when portals would be added in Homestead? It would be too easy to get around. As for reduced /home cooldown, it could be in order.
The registered kit should be one-time only. It shouldn't contain too many goodies though, It would kill the value of stuff. Just enough materials to start a house, iron set of tools and maybe enough for some iron armor. On that note, the current starter kit needs to be nerfed. The tools should be stone instead, because it killed the price of iron.
heldplayer wrote:
[SpA]Howard wrote:
- Small note about the Nether. Either it is replaced by an admin shop that sells the blocks or it is a dedicated map with a dedicated portal to it like we currently have. It is simply not an option to let everyone build Nether Portals. Your choice which way you go with this. Obviously having the shops leaves us with one map and better performance but having another map...gives us a whole other map.
Or we make people dig dirt like they've never done before, mcMMO has the ability to let people get netherrack, glowstone and soulsand from mining dirt, gravel and sand so this should be no problem.[/hidden]
Netherrack and Soulsand require a tremendous amount of levels to obtain. Glowstone dust can be found as early as level 15, so the Admin Shop needs to sell Netherrack and Soul Sand.


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be 
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 23:09 
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Pizzaman194 wrote:
Netherrack and Soulsand require a tremendous amount of levels to obtain. Glowstone dust can be found as early as level 15, so the Admin Shop needs to sell Netherrack and Soul Sand.
I thought you could change the levels of these things, or so I heard.

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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 23:11 
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heldplayer wrote:
Pizzaman194 wrote:
Netherrack and Soulsand require a tremendous amount of levels to obtain. Glowstone dust can be found as early as level 15, so the Admin Shop needs to sell Netherrack and Soul Sand.
I thought you could change the levels of these things, or so I heard.
Yes, they can. The drop table is fully customizable I believe.


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PostPosted: 19 Jun 2012, 23:52 
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id go with this option over any of the others, seems to solve some of the big issues i see myself, i agree with every part ..nothing for me to truly complain about with it.


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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2012, 00:28 
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i agree on this plan more then a3 it solves most of the issues if not all of them,now its just alot of work to be done i guess

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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2012, 01:00 
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I really like this idea, I think this is a great idea for our server. But if we're already registered do we get a kit? This makes perfect sense to me. It would be cool to have an area to trade with villagers since all the villages will be raided and all the npcs will be killed in probably the first week or so. I'm looking forward to having a new map but not really looking forward to losing all my stuff, but as I agree it would not be fair for others to get their items from the old map. But my question is would our Mcstats be reset if this happened to win? and same going towards I- conomy? I have spent alot of my time digging and have a 1100 excavation and really not looking forward to losing that, but I do not really count this unfair towards others. I do think we should add the nether when ready to the new map if it does happen because it would make netherrack and soul sand worth more than diamonds even though diamonds are the most rare and desired item in the game. So, bye for now :18 . As I said and restate this is a good idea and SHOULD be the choice of everyone if the poll gets reset.

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gb 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2012, 01:52 
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Regarding LWC and Residence, will it be cheaper or even free for donators like it was before? And will veterans get the new versions of the plugins they had before or will you be changing ranks around?


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gb 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2012, 03:13 
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ZEnergy wrote:
Regarding LWC and Residence, will it be cheaper or even free for donators like it was before? And will veterans get the new versions of the plugins they had before or will you be changing ranks around?
I don't recall any of those things ever being true.

Whatever proposal is taken, the bonuses that Contributors will get will be increased. As to Vets...errr?

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de 
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2012, 16:15 
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Frimple Wrote:
Quote:
OK, Re: Above about guests being mindless killing machines. I would like to actively dangle the irresistable sight of untilled soil and undestroyed buildings in front of the guests that first get the chance to race off into our beautiful world. The ground outside where ever guests first get the chance to interact with the world is going to be destroyed, no matter how large a zone we put around it, no matter what we do, we don't need to fight this. Let the guests who find a red mist descend across their vision when they see an undestroyed block charge off into a place we don't care about [we could even call it bedlam] but crucially connect that place to the network the rest of us will use.

How is that different to now ? Well no matter whether the guest goes straight into the earth or the side of someones house, or even they go the other way [either some fractionally less obvious direction or a res-d mansion within sight range containing the portal and important server info, anything really] their choice will always be the 'right' one. They won't be able to go somewhere where they're not joining people they can play with, and not coming to a place where they cannot build. Yes, this would be achieved by moving spawn to bedlam but I don't think, and I don't think you think, that that is enough.
Yes, I see this as a problem too.
But I may have a solution:

What if we can make guests spawn randomly throughout the map after they entered a portal or something?
Only thing is getting back to a portal. But they can check dynmap for that..

So far my idea.

regards,

hwin

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PostPosted: 20 Jun 2012, 16:31 
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hwinwuzhere wrote:
Frimple Wrote:
Quote:
OK, Re: Above about guests being mindless killing machines. I would like to actively dangle the irresistable sight of untilled soil and undestroyed buildings in front of the guests that first get the chance to race off into our beautiful world. The ground outside where ever guests first get the chance to interact with the world is going to be destroyed, no matter how large a zone we put around it, no matter what we do, we don't need to fight this. Let the guests who find a red mist descend across their vision when they see an undestroyed block charge off into a place we don't care about [we could even call it bedlam] but crucially connect that place to the network the rest of us will use.

How is that different to now ? Well no matter whether the guest goes straight into the earth or the side of someones house, or even they go the other way [either some fractionally less obvious direction or a res-d mansion within sight range containing the portal and important server info, anything really] their choice will always be the 'right' one. They won't be able to go somewhere where they're not joining people they can play with, and not coming to a place where they cannot build. Yes, this would be achieved by moving spawn to bedlam but I don't think, and I don't think you think, that that is enough.
Yes, I see this as a problem too.
But I may have a solution:

What if we can make guests spawn randomly throughout the map after they entered a portal or something?
Only thing is getting back to a portal. But they can check dynmap for that..

So far my idea.

regards,

hwin

Couldn't it be argued that that might be worse? we would have little pockets of grief everywhere rather than in one place.

Also the transport system kinda nullifies that surely?

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2012, 05:28 
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Am i ever in love with this idea... I'm glad that this is pretty much a "Great Compromise" on the server. And it is CLEARLY winning on the polls. Love all the ideas, except maybe paying the ops to have your house restored. (I can see some things going wrong with that). But otherwise a very good option and it has my vote. Well done. :mrgreen: :5:

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2012, 12:12 
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stesser wrote:
Am i ever in love with this idea... I'm glad that this is pretty much a "Great Compromise" on the server. And it is CLEARLY winning on the polls. Love all the ideas, except maybe paying the ops to have your house restored. (I can see some things going wrong with that). But otherwise a very good option and it has my vote. Well done. :mrgreen: :5:
It has to be something like that because, no matter what they OPs are currently saying about being bored, we CANNOT return to the situation we had on the last map. People were running the OPs RAGGED with constant requests to get their house LogBlokced (I'm looking at you, Samiak) over just one block being destroyed.

If people don't want their shit destroyed, they should protect it. If people are too lazy to protect them, why should we restore them for free?

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2012, 22:43 
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[SpA]Howard wrote:

It has to be something like that because, no matter what they OPs are currently saying about being bored, we CANNOT return to the situation we had on the last map. People were running the OPs RAGGED with constant requests to get their house LogBlokced (I'm looking at you, Samiak) over just one block being destroyed.

If people don't want their shit destroyed, they should protect it. If people are too lazy to protect them, why should we restore them for free?
Well I can see how the job would be tiring... >:( I can't really think of any ideas about this... Would it be possible to have a fee per restore block? Make it steep so people wouldnt just not protect it. Although wouldn't we have ops arguing about who would get to do the restore so they could get extra money? Although do the ops even need money? *sigh* Really I should just leave this to the smarter people since I don't have any good ideas....

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PostPosted: 22 Jun 2012, 23:30 
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Hmm. I admit I haven't been paying a heck of a lot of attention to this whole discussion, but stesser gave me an idea there. Would it be possible for you (the managers) to sell "restore licenses" to people who could then restore peoples' builds, for a per-block fee? This would allow some people to have a different source of income, leave ops to do more important things, and restrain restorations from going out of control.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2012, 00:11 
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[SpA]Howard wrote:
stesser wrote:
Am i ever in love with this idea... I'm glad that this is pretty much a "Great Compromise" on the server. And it is CLEARLY winning on the polls. Love all the ideas, except maybe paying the ops to have your house restored. (I can see some things going wrong with that). But otherwise a very good option and it has my vote. Well done. :mrgreen: :5:
It has to be something like that because, no matter what they OPs are currently saying about being bored, we CANNOT return to the situation we had on the last map. People were running the OPs RAGGED with constant requests to get their house LogBlokced (I'm looking at you, Samiak) over just one block being destroyed.

If people don't want their shit destroyed, they should protect it. If people are too lazy to protect them, why should we restore them for free?
:ugly:
They somehow always managed to find spots that weren't protected... The whole crapyard was just too big to zone... Heehee...

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2012, 01:51 
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Gamma_Metroid wrote:
Hmm. I admit I haven't been paying a heck of a lot of attention to this whole discussion, but stesser gave me an idea there. Would it be possible for you (the managers) to sell "restore licenses" to people who could then restore peoples' builds, for a per-block fee? This would allow some people to have a different source of income, leave ops to do more important things, and restrain restorations from going out of control.
That would be a more workable suggestion of it weren't so open to abuse. Unless we ask that the people paid to restore blocks are also reporting the damage and punishing griefers/retrieving valuable blocks. In which case we're back at the responsibilities of the ops who ought to be doing their job regardless of reward anyway.

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2012, 02:02 
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That idea is massively open to abuse, as Frimple points out. Any money that changes hands for rollbacks will go to MY account and be removed from the economy.

The whole idea is flawed though as how long do we allow rollbacks to go and why are people not res'ing to start with?

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2012, 03:31 
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Okay yes, people are stupid if they don't res their builds. But really if you want to make a huge build that couldn't be ressed without millions of dollars monthly, I think you should be able to have it rolledback without the huge fees. Survival is the main aspect of the server right? So give me a chicken and a sapling and i could survive forever. When people compete to see how many diamond blocks they can collect, that isn't survival. (Like adog and his 64 diamond blocks) There has to be some sort of fun/creative aspect in it. A fee for rollback i can see but don't make it so big that people with good builds can't get it without slaying a creeper army. And what I really needed to know was that the money would go to Howard's account and not to the people doing the rollback.

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2012, 12:14 
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stesser wrote:
Okay yes, people are stupid if they don't res their builds. But really if you want to make a huge build that couldn't be ressed without millions of dollars monthly, I think you should be able to have it rolledback without the huge fees. Survival is the main aspect of the server right? So give me a chicken and a sapling and i could survive forever. When people compete to see how many diamond blocks they can collect, that isn't survival. (Like adog and his 64 diamond blocks) There has to be some sort of fun/creative aspect in it. A fee for rollback i can see but don't make it so big that people with good builds can't get it without slaying a creeper army. And what I really needed to know was that the money would go to Howard's account and not to the people doing the rollback.

People are collecting 64 diamond blocks then complaining about the cost of Res? Do you not see the flaw in that?!

Moreover, why should SMP be a place for big builds and why should building a big build make you immune from having to Res it? The rules have to work for everyone or they aint rules.
We have Freebuild and the Theme Zones for large, protected builds

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2012, 16:02 
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[SpA]Howard wrote:
stesser wrote:
Okay yes, people are stupid if they don't res their builds. But really if you want to make a huge build that couldn't be ressed without millions of dollars monthly, I think you should be able to have it rolledback without the huge fees. Survival is the main aspect of the server right? So give me a chicken and a sapling and i could survive forever. When people compete to see how many diamond blocks they can collect, that isn't survival. (Like adog and his 64 diamond blocks) There has to be some sort of fun/creative aspect in it. A fee for rollback i can see but don't make it so big that people with good builds can't get it without slaying a creeper army. And what I really needed to know was that the money would go to Howard's account and not to the people doing the rollback.

People are collecting 64 diamond blocks then complaining about the cost of Res? Do you not see the flaw in that?!

Moreover, why should SMP be a place for big builds and why should building a big build make you immune from having to Res it? The rules have to work for everyone or they aint rules.
We have Freebuild and the Theme Zones for large, protected builds
You gets a hug. :hug:


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2012, 23:00 
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[SpA]Howard wrote:

People are collecting 64 diamond blocks then complaining about the cost of Res? Do you not see the flaw in that?!

Moreover, why should SMP be a place for big builds and why should building a big build make you immune from having to Res it? The rules have to work for everyone or they aint rules.
We have Freebuild and the Theme Zones for large, protected builds
Okay I guess I'm not clear on the theme build issue. You said in the proposal that most theme builds would be removed if they weren't active. And a few spares would be kept. Does that mean that only those spares would be used? Or could we have alot of people doing different theme builds? I've never really dealt with theme builds so I don't know much about them, or how they work. And yes, no one should be able to not res a build without it being to big.

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