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ro 
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2009, 19:18 
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Relentless's idea is great, I'd love being able to skip hydro not just delay it.


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ro 
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2009, 19:30 
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The Necromancer (4970)
I'd say that I'd be VERY careful with suggestions like that since this could lead to a heavy distortion of the map cycle and turn the server into e.g. a perma-goldrush/dustbowl affair - depending on the limits you set when the same map can be bought of course...

Also, delaying maps makes people use more SpA points, which is a good thing, I guess. ^^

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dk 
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2009, 20:23 
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I would prefer having it so that it only skips the next map if it has been delayed twice.

Such as:

current map: Winfort
Nextmap: Loserturbine

I buy new next map: Awesomefrontier
Nextmap: Loserturbine

Someone else buys next map: OkRush
Nextmap: SemicoolGranary

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ro 
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2009, 21:57 
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The Necromancer (4970)
[SpA]Spikespiegel wrote:
I would prefer having it so that it only skips the next map if it has been delayed twice.

Such as:

current map: Oneofthegreatestfailuresinmapmakinghistoryfort
Nextmap: Loserturbine

I buy new next map: Awesomefrontier
Nextmap: Loserturbine

Someone else buys next map: OkRush
Nextmap: SemicoolGranary
Fixed the example for ya. ;-)

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell


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pl 
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2009, 22:26 
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Has no REAL life! (1715)
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Quote:
current map: Oneofthegreatestfailuresinmapmakinghistoryfort
Or ImgayandIlike2fort :mrgreen: Skipping nextmap by buying another is not a good idea in long terms - you would probably be stucked to 6-7 maps at best. And if people are willing to spend their points you can delay 2fort forever :mrgreen: And if you lack points just go and idle on empty server at night :lol:


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ee 
PostPosted: 23 Mar 2009, 23:30 
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Crap at posting (33)
[SpA]SaintK wrote:
EtsSpets wrote:
Reward systems are great for motivating people to play more. But as these players play and earn those points, do they ask why ? To change a map ? To get a reserved slot ? I get my map selection from the filters in the server search function and a reserved slot by clicking "Not full" on the right there. So wtf ?

As far as the features go, i would really appreciate a smart auto-balance system that dosent just randomly move people. The servers could also benefit from team randomization at the beginning of every round. Also there could be class limiters on the servers to avoid useless overcrowding of different classes (50% of the team as engineers ftw!).

In conclusion i think there are enough people in the servers, so its time to stop thinking of quantity and start thinking of quality.
We're continuesly working on the development of our spapoints plugin aswell as the rest of the community. As we're all doing this in our free time and unpaid you cannot expect development to be as quickly as you'd expect with companies and such. If you compare us with other communities i think its pretty save to say we're in the top leading communities who have their own development team inhouse. We build our community on 2 important things, 1; our community members (spa members, regulair players etc) who make it a nice place to play and a place that wants to be played on (hence the reserved slots which are earnable by being one of these regulairs), and that directly covers the second point, our spapoints system which should provide players with that bit more extras they don't recieve on other servers (because i don't know any were you can earn points to spend on reserved slots and map changes).

We're aware of the balance issue. As you can imagen if you want to sort this propperly you require a WHOLE lot of coding and mathical work on a plugin to make this work propperly. To give you a direction, a populair CS balancer took several months and 1500+ lines of code to develop, and this is relatively 'easy' because its on a game with pretty 'easy' game rules for each side (you don't have issue's such as switching a medic could already tip over the balance). We are working on resolving the teambalancing issue, but don't expect anything anytime soon and if it would come to work completely propperly. As with every game, the balancing issue is mostly a case for the players to deal with. As admins we're doing our best to keep things playable, but we can't be watching everything 24/7.
No objections there, great job coding the servers and creating the system in the first place. As i have managed a few software development cases for some addons for host software i know what kind on headache it is, coding, testing....then finding a bug and starting from scratch for some stupid decision that someone made at some point etc :) but thats not the issue. I am not here to offer software analytics support. The post was made in response to a series of frustrating experiences that resulted from imbalanced teams, stacking and the bonus point system, especially the ability to change maps. I dont know about you but voting still seems the most democratic way to choose the next map (if at all). I mean i am sure that all of you have had the experience when you are playing a map and looking forward to the next map when someone changes it, and its frustrating, 15 people want to play the next map and less want to change it, and they just do.

And this is not directed to discredit the people that have created the system. It is just a comment, a reference to the negative experiences that the system creates. So when the developers start to analyze the future development directions of their project they can take it into consideration. There are always positive and negative sides to everything, thats inevitable.


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gb 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 01:05 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
Can you make the following pls:

current map: badlands
nextmap: gold rush

I buy granary with my SpA Points so:

nextmap: granary

Now it would be:

map after nextmap: goldrush

But Id like it to be:

map after nextmap: any map but goldrush

So I dont actually delay goldrush (in this examble) but totally forget about it and play a decent map instead :P


That would probably lead into ppl spending even more points (ZOMFG Relentless bought granary and fucked goldrush, owww wait for my revenge, when granary starts I will insta-rebuy goldrush) ;)
I agree with this, the only problem is people who want to play the nextmap.

I hate playing 2fort and like to buy another map, but you can't avoid it because it comes afterwards :( Some people actually enjoy 2fort, or other maps i hate so i just take it.

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de 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 06:22 
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Hey....2fort had a very good map design for like 1998! Gladly Valve evolved map design a lot for TF2 so in comparison Fort2 sucks now.

What does the bird want to say? Uhm...2Fort sucks :P

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You are all. A bunch of faggots


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ee 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 13:01 
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Crap at posting (33)
I just got the most brilliant ide ever. As the vmware and the likes continue to develop and as im more and more use to virtualizing everything and anything why not virtualize the TF2 servers as well. The principal that kind of "lit the lamp" was that there could be a single server environment that has some performance limitations, lets say 72 slots and/or 5 virtual TF2 servers. Then the people in those servers could vote on the map and the virtualisation layer would then create lets say 5 servers based on the most popular choices and spread the people among them, and the people that didnt get their way could be given a choice to join one of those.

All the virtual servers would have the same cycle, lets say 20 min, then the process would repeat.

On the second thought there should just be a Hypervisor for all the TF2 servers in SPA that would manage all that and the users could just do the voting, and be connected to the appropriate server based on the vote and the Hypervisor would do the rest.

It would revolutionize the whole resource management system.

Considering the scale though, it might be a task for Valve. And why stop at TF2 lets make it universal :). I can see it now: "SPA, the community that revolutionized the gaming industry by developing that cutting edge server tools so desperately needed" - and getting filthy rich in the process :)


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de 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 13:18 
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EtsSpets wrote:
I just got the most brilliant ide ever. As the vmware and the likes continue to develop and as im more and more use to virtualizing everything and anything why not virtualize the TF2 servers as well. The principal that kind of "lit the lamp" was that there could be a single server environment that has some performance limitations, lets say 72 slots and/or 5 virtual TF2 servers. Then the people in those servers could vote on the map and the virtualisation layer would then create lets say 5 servers based on the most popular choices and spread the people among them, and the people that didnt get their way could be given a choice to join one of those.
Our servers are not on the same machine. Aditionally if this one pc would fail every server would be offline.
Quote:
All the virtual servers would have the same cycle, lets say 20 min, then the process would repeat.
Even if every map would have the same lenght, which is not very smart, the playtime of the maps on the different servers would still be off. Or do you want to cut every map of after exactly 20 minutes no matter if last point is capped, intel is being holded and so on?
Quote:
On the second thought there should just be a Hypervisor for all the TF2 servers in SPA that would manage all that and the users could just do the voting, and be connected to the appropriate server based on the vote and the Hypervisor would do the rest.

It would revolutionize the whole resource management system.

Considering the scale though, it might be a task for Valve. And why stop at TF2 lets make it universal :). I can see it now: "SPA, the community that revolutionized the gaming industry by developing that cutting edge server tools so desperately needed" - and getting filthy rich in the process :)
I dont dare to reply to the rest its way too weird.

_________________
Hansieil wrote:
You are all. A bunch of faggots


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gb 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 14:36 
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EtsSpets wrote:

Hypervisor
You lost me a H. That said I know very little about anything.

Is this something to do with protective face gear while travelling great distances in space?

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The stats below lie. I'm actually much much worse.


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gb 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 19:04 
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Has no REAL life! (2026)
EtsSpets wrote:
Snip :)
Was just gonna say, isnt this the idea to have a lobby... with too many people to fit in one game... which then split into more servers with different maps from what people may or may not have decided on... making the lobby pointless? And haven't we seen from L4D that Lobbies just suck big baby chunks.


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ee 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 20:39 
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Crap at posting (33)
To Vögelchen: about the same machine, dude i never ment they were the same machine, the abstraction layer would work the other way around, the hypervisor would manage several physical servers or several virtual servers and they would seem as one big server to the rest of the world. As for the rest think of it, all Steam game servers managed by redundant hypervisors managing the resources dynamically.

To Greasy: i was thinking of the same thing and i would go as far as to say that l4d lobby systems suck sweaty monkey balls. And as far as the server mod side goes (excluding the "rocket-science") the real applicable solution would involve a new lobby system (maybe even as a custom map as a lobby replacement?) etc.

And for everyone else...just be creative, let your imagination fly, theres time later to reduce it all to practical and possible solutions.


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gb 
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2009, 21:04 
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Has no REAL life! (2026)
Yeh but even then its just a useless "layer" why would people join one big map to then lets say go through portals to a different map/ therefore a seperate server when they can do that effectively enough by... using the server list that is in use now :O


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ee 
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2009, 14:06 
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Crap at posting (33)
[SpA]Greasy_greabo wrote:
Yeh but even then its just a useless "layer" why would people join one big map to then lets say go through portals to a different map/ therefore a seperate server when they can do that effectively enough by... using the server list that is in use now :O
Hmm im not really getting deep into it, cause im at work but off the top of my head. Why are chatrooms still popular or the 3d interactive spaces like Sony and Ms are offering ? Interaction ofcourse, minigames, etc. Lets say the custom map would feature trains that take you to some map, youve got a ticket, with a time and meanwhile you can play minigames, trickjumps with scout class, duck hunt with sniper class, rocket jump obstacle course etc. Those could be done 1 vs 1 or againt time etc. There are endless possibilities. And thats just off the top of my head, 15 sec on thinking max :)

Stop shooting raw concepts down before anaylzing them, rather try to improve them, or suggest something else.


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nl 
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2009, 14:31 
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EtsSpets wrote:
[SpA]Greasy_greabo wrote:
Yeh but even then its just a useless "layer" why would people join one big map to then lets say go through portals to a different map/ therefore a seperate server when they can do that effectively enough by... using the server list that is in use now :O
Hmm im not really getting deep into it, cause im at work but off the top of my head. Why are chatrooms still popular or the 3d interactive spaces like Sony and Ms are offering ? Interaction ofcourse, minigames, etc. Lets say the custom map would feature trains that take you to some map, youve got a ticket, with a time and meanwhile you can play minigames, trickjumps with scout class, duck hunt with sniper class, rocket jump obstacle course etc. Those could be done 1 vs 1 or againt time etc. There are endless possibilities. And thats just off the top of my head, 15 sec on thinking max :)

Stop shooting raw concepts down before anaylzing them, rather try to improve them, or suggest something else.
You should include realism in your concepts. Stuff that is within our power to create.


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ee 
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2009, 16:33 
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[SpA]SaintK wrote:
EtsSpets wrote:

Hmm im not really getting deep into it, cause im at work but off the top of my head. Why are chatrooms still popular or the 3d interactive spaces like Sony and Ms are offering ? Interaction ofcourse, minigames, etc. Lets say the custom map would feature trains that take you to some map, youve got a ticket, with a time and meanwhile you can play minigames, trickjumps with scout class, duck hunt with sniper class, rocket jump obstacle course etc. Those could be done 1 vs 1 or againt time etc. There are endless possibilities. And thats just off the top of my head, 15 sec on thinking max :)

Stop shooting raw concepts down before anaylzing them, rather try to improve them, or suggest something else.
You should include realism in your concepts. Stuff that is within our power to create.
Is there a CV repository of SPA members somewhere :) ? Besides theres nothing that a motivated group of people cant do, tools can be acquired skills learned etc. But i know what you are getting at, you are the only one that does any coding and that has been limited to xml, php etc, maybe some source tweaking ?

Hint taken, ill tone it down, maybe open up a new thread for "The Ultimate Mod" or smth :)


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nl 
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2009, 16:38 
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EtsSpets wrote:
[SpA]SaintK wrote:

You should include realism in your concepts. Stuff that is within our power to create.
Is there a CV repository of SPA members somewhere :) ? Besides theres nothing that a motivated group of people cant do, tools can be acquired skills learned etc. But i know what you are getting at, you are the only one that does any coding and that has been limited to xml, php etc, maybe some source tweaking ?

Hint taken, ill tone it down, maybe open up a new thread for "The Ultimate Mod" or smth :)
I can't code at all.


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de 
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2009, 17:18 
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Has no REAL life! (4162)
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[SpA]SaintK wrote:
I can't code at all.
And that is good! Pure goodness in its purest form coming right from god's heart! :demm:

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SaintK: I'm completely lost :mrgreen:


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nl 
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2009, 18:38 
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EtsSpets wrote:
[SpA]SaintK wrote:

You should include realism in your concepts. Stuff that is within our power to create.
Is there a CV repository of SPA members somewhere :) ? Besides theres nothing that a motivated group of people cant do, tools can be acquired skills learned etc. But i know what you are getting at, you are the only one that does any coding and that has been limited to xml, php etc, maybe some source tweaking ?

Hint taken, ill tone it down, maybe open up a new thread for "The Ultimate Mod" or smth :)
Look, all i try to say is that we're not Sony, we're not MS or whatever. We're specialattack. A group of people who enjoy playing, are skilled in the IT and like to put this stuff together. The techteam consist of differant skills. We have a group of 8 or so webdevs, program devs, designers, linux speciallists, network engineers etc. Together we work in our free time on spa. We can develop game changing stuff or additions as long as it can be done using Sourcemod/metamod. Next to that we have the development of our website and backend systems. What you see is just a tiny peace of the systems we have running powering all the stuff we do, so its an enormous task to build and maintain everything (especially because we rely alot on 3rd party tools aswell which gets updated constantly aswell). So... What can we build? Well, pretty much we've build so far, and the stuff that is in line with what we've created. Mostly the technical skills are no limitation as we have people in our techteam who are professionals in daily live. The main problem is time and money. Money to aquire tools/programs (so everything we use pref. needs to be freeware/opensource or really low cost) has to come from donations, we dont sell anything so we dont have a steady cash flow. The even more important thing is time. If we all could work 40h a week and get payed for it, i'm sure spa would be much faster developped, but this just aint the case.

So if you come with idea's and such, take this into account before proposing anything, otherwise it cannot simply be done pure because of the facts from above, and not because we can't. (unless you are a uber l33t coder youself and wish to participate in the development)


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de 
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2009, 19:46 
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[SpA]Blackhawk wrote:
[SpA]SaintK wrote:
I can't code at all.
And that is good! Pure goodness in its purest form coming right from god's heart! :demm:
lol

imagine if saint would code somehow, how many things more he could break ;)

_________________
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nl 
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2009, 09:12 
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quitschbo wrote:
[SpA]Blackhawk wrote:
And that is good! Pure goodness in its purest form coming right from god's heart! :demm:
lol

imagine if saint would code somehow, how many things more he could break ;)
In Saints defense, its actually not him who is breaking the server. I managed to install a hidden camera at his house a month ago, and have been able to monitor what happens when the servers break again

Image

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de 
PostPosted: 26 Mar 2009, 10:56 
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Has no REAL life! (4162)
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If I had to choose who should do some programming... Saint or his kitty! Ye know what I would choose... ;)

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dk 
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 17:28 
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I would love to see this system being able to work with your wc3 plugin.
You buy [item] for [xx] days for [xx] Spapoints. - it will then be added to your "wc3 loadout" and it auto equip/activate so you dont have to worry about buying immunity and so forth.
You can buy experience (xp) for [xx] points.
You can buy autobalance protect.
Maybe some special "Spapoint" features like a permanent/weekly bunnyhop feature, extended ammo slots and so forth.

i mean i dont wanna donate if only i can set a new map lol :p you get my drift <3
ONLY YOUR FANTASY SETS THE LIMIT!


ok im super stoned so imma go grap some food..peace out

-LL


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nl 
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 18:06 
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Image


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nl 
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 18:09 
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the G.O.A.T wrote:
I would love to see this system being able to work with your wc3 plugin.
You buy [item] for [xx] days for [xx] Spapoints. - it will then be added to your "wc3 loadout" and it auto equip/activate so you dont have to worry about buying immunity and so forth.
You can buy experience (xp) for [xx] points.
You can buy autobalance protect.
Maybe some special "Spapoint" features like a permanent/weekly bunnyhop feature, extended ammo slots and so forth.

i mean i dont wanna donate if only i can set a new map lol :p you get my drift <3
ONLY YOUR FANTASY SETS THE LIMIT!


ok im super stoned so imma go grap some food..peace out

-LL
Hi,

You've posted some interesting suggestions. I am not sure if we have anyone available who can change the SpA points code at the moment, but I'll look into it.

Until we managed to produce something, we could always agree on manually adding xp and such in the meanwhile.

Saint K.


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gb 
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 21:55 
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Has no REAL life! (4896)
the G.O.A.T wrote:
I would love to see this system being able to work with your wc3 plugin.
You buy [item] for [xx] days for [xx] Spapoints. - it will then be added to your "wc3 loadout" and it auto equip/activate so you dont have to worry about buying immunity and so forth.
You can buy experience (xp) for [xx] points.
You can buy autobalance protect.
Maybe some special "Spapoint" features like a permanent/weekly bunnyhop feature, extended ammo slots and so forth.

i mean i dont wanna donate if only i can set a new map lol :p you get my drift <3
ONLY YOUR FANTASY SETS THE LIMIT!


ok im super stoned so imma go grap some food..peace out

-LL
I don't know you, but I like you.


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gb 
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 23:12 
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is Wonder Woman (5950)
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Just going back to map voting on TF2. What if someone was to vote for a map and by using their SpA points players can then vote yes or no as to whether they want that map; a bit like when you vote to quit the game in L4D2. So for a certain amount of SpA points you can put the first bid in for a map, then for a lower amount of SpA points, players can vote on whether they want that map or not. No points no vote!

_________________
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nl 
PostPosted: 17 May 2010, 23:16 
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Votes are out of the question by default.


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dk 
PostPosted: 18 May 2010, 11:03 
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[SpA]SaintK wrote:
the G.O.A.T wrote:
I would love to see this system being able to work with your wc3 plugin.
You buy [item] for [xx] days for [xx] Spapoints. - it will then be added to your "wc3 loadout" and it auto equip/activate so you dont have to worry about buying immunity and so forth.
You can buy experience (xp) for [xx] points.
You can buy autobalance protect.
Maybe some special "Spapoint" features like a permanent/weekly bunnyhop feature, extended ammo slots and so forth.

i mean i dont wanna donate if only i can set a new map lol :p you get my drift <3
ONLY YOUR FANTASY SETS THE LIMIT!


ok im super stoned so imma go grap some food..peace out

-LL
Hi,

You've posted some interesting suggestions. I am not sure if we have anyone available who can change the SpA points code at the moment, but I'll look into it.

Until we managed to produce something, we could always agree on manually adding xp and such in the meanwhile.

Saint K.
Yes, il return to you when my ebay sales have cleared :p


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