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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 13:39 
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Has no REAL life! (8841)
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well sometimes stale mates just happen, and its better than a steam roll, the main issue still is the massive team differences causing people to leave and making the games less enjoyable. I dont mind 2 extra players on the opposite team, because the lower numbered team will have players on it that easily rack up 3-4 kills per death.

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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 13:41 
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Community slut (13473)
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Theory is currently working on solving the huge difference issues.


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pl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 14:03 
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Has no REAL life! (1715)
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Thats good, we had massively unbalanced game on coldfront yesterday - it was me, balls, sebas and couple of regulars in blu ( 8 players ) and 12 players in red from which I recognized only Mr Giggles :/ We steamrolled epicly 3:0 with me having like 60 points in the end with top reds having like 10 points.


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 14:35 
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Has no REAL life! (3493)
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[SpA]SaintK wrote:
Theory is currently working on solving the huge difference issues.
ok, that's good :) cos it really isn't a popular thing on the servers, and this will solve 90 percent of the problem. cheers theory!

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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 14:57 
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Community slut (13473)
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Quote:
Theory: hi, I updated the plugin last night
Theory: you can use sb_player_advantage_tax now
Theory: and it defaults to 1, up from the previous value of 0.5
[SpA]Saint K.: cool
[SpA]Saint K.: I shall try :D
[SpA]Saint K.: thanks again :)
Theory: np


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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 20:50 
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Nerdish, tbh. (515)
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Well the plugin isn't working still, had again to manually switch players.
When someone hit auto join it got assigned to team with too many players.

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ro 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 21:14 
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Geek (602)
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On payload it gets too messed up, my opinion is that the mod should be disabled during payload if it's possible...

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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 22 Oct 2010, 23:02 
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Doesn't get out much (366)
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We had problems tonight during Dustbowl, with unbalanced teams at the start of the round.

I appreciate that I've not been around during the week, and maybe it's been working fine then, but if not this problem just seems to be dragging on. Are we actually doing any testing away from the public servers or just pushing out new untested versions?

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pl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 01:18 
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Has no REAL life! (1715)
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It looks like servers are guinea pigs, since teams like 13 vs 8 are still normal. Also payload maps are unplayable, you can get past first stage on any of them. Also if teams are equal at start ( lets say 10 vs 11 ) and one team caps point too fast it makes it 12 vs 8 pretty quick, making it impossible to win ( happened on steel about an hour ago ).


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ro 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 02:51 
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Has no REAL life! (3017)
Please, either set the player difference to a maximum of 2, or remove the plugin.
Right now I honestly think random scramble is better than this. People complain about the plugin all the time and while I'm sure the regulars will stick to the servers, the new players are definetly getting put off by games like these.
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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 03:21 
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Has no REAL life! (8841)
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im also concerned about this testing stage driving away new players

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-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."


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ro 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 07:40 
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Geek (602)
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Yeah, a lot of new players were ranting about the player imbalance (15-8) and i think, as sebas said, that it would be fair to limit the thingy to 2 players...

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de 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 07:46 
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Geek (630)
[SpA]sebas wrote:
Please, either set the player difference to a maximum of 2, or remove the plugin.
Yes, please it's annoying.
To be honest, even a regular will get annoyed after a while saying "Let others be the guinea pigs , i will return if the prob is solved".


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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 11:42 
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Nerdish, tbh. (515)
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[SpA]ProtectMyBalls wrote:
im also concerned about this testing stage driving away new players
Not just new players, also the regular players are barely playing anymore because of this. Played yesterday evening and only seen 5 people I know and rest were new people.

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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 14:03 
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Without proper development feedback and testing support things like this will never come off the ground.

Players can whine all they want, in the end its for THEM we're doing this. If people can't appreciate this, then what the hell are we doing here in the first place?


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pl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 14:11 
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Has no REAL life! (1715)
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Not much here to appreciate now, payload maps are unplayable, and MASSIVE differences in player numbers just to have mathematical balance in skill dont help. As I said there must be a gap in this plugin for skill difference, lets sacrifice some balance for fun of the game. We can clearly say now that having even slightly unbalanced teams ( 12 vs 10 ) makes almost everyone complain.


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 14:32 
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is Wonder Woman (5950)
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Well the more feedback that is given the quicker the bugs can be resolved. As saint says, without the feedback and testing we wouldn't be able to progress. So I ask everyone to be a little patient as this will not happen overnight. Just keep on posting your feedback and your thoughts and hopefully a solution that everyone likes and agrees on will eventually evolve.

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de 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 14:39 
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Geek (630)
[SpA]SaintK wrote:
Without proper development feedback and testing support things like this will never come off the ground.

Players can whine all they want, in the end its for THEM we're doing this. If people can't appreciate this, then what the hell are we doing here in the first place?
Yes without proper testing no developement. But people in the first place join the server to have fun on a popular server. Newbies because it is always crowded and they expect a gg, regulars cause they know they got a gg.
People that are new to the server do not care if a test is done for a new balancer, they just see by numbers unbalanced teams and leave. Regulars also get annoyed by the unbalanced numbers, but at least some regulars know about the balancer test and might accept it for a longer time then newbies.

The situation atm might lead to a working skill balancer, but people playing on other servers cause they are just pleased with normal balancers and even teamnumbers. If they got annoyed for too long on their "ex" regular server, it will be difficult to get them back.

A high risc for not knowing if a skill based balancer would really be that more good then the "normal" balancers have been utn.


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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 14:48 
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[SpA]Dunken wrote:
[SpA]SaintK wrote:
Without proper development feedback and testing support things like this will never come off the ground.

Players can whine all they want, in the end its for THEM we're doing this. If people can't appreciate this, then what the hell are we doing here in the first place?
Yes without proper testing no developement. But people in the first place join the server to have fun on a popular server. Newbies because it is always crowded and they expect a gg, regulars cause they know they got a gg.
People that are new to the server do not care if a test is done for a new balancer, they just see by numbers unbalanced teams and leave. Regulars also get annoyed by the unbalanced numbers, but at least some regulars know about the balancer test and might accept it for a longer time then newbies.

The situation atm might lead to a working skill balancer, but people playing on other servers cause they are just pleased with normal balancers and even teamnumbers. If they got annoyed for too long on their "ex" regular server, it will be difficult to get them back.

A high risc for not knowing if a skill based balancer would really be that more good then the "normal" balancers have been utn.
I've disabled it for now at server 2. Server 1 will disable next time its restarted. (We prolly won't do much this weekend as we have no time)

Also we have ran our servers for 8 months with constant freeze's. I'm not so much afraid of this whole new players leaving thing. It will be alright 8)


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pl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 14:52 
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Has no REAL life! (1715)
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I rather run a test on server for 3-4 maps with more regulars to see how it balances with a lot of skilled players.


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ro 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 15:29 
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Has no REAL life! (3017)
Saint, it's not that we do not want to help it's developement with feedback and patience. It's just that I honestly think it's a very bad ideea to leave it on like this, in it's current state. It's simply frustrating to attack on a payload map with 4 players less. Yes, with communication and team-work it could be a great challenge but as it is, it's all about 2 people pushing against a brick wall while the others stay in spawn and complain.

But we could, as bart said, have test sessions lasting a cople of hours, or a day.

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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 15:32 
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Let's put it this way, i'm low on time, so now its off. When we both have time, its on. The plugin gets updates mostly multiple times per day. The testing remains required.


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ro 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 17:46 
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Geek (602)
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i like the ideea with one day of testing, on the next friday or saturday it would be total fun :4 and usefull too :3

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nl 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 17:47 
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Edeph wrote:
i like the ideea with one day of testing, on the next friday or saturday it would be total fun :4 and usefull too :3
No, not one day testing. Any day we're available to work on it.


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ro 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 23 Oct 2010, 18:24 
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Geek (602)
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I was thinking about a "mostly-veteran-players" kind of game :3

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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 30 Oct 2010, 19:22 
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Illiterate (9)
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Hi everyone, sorry for disappearing but I've been distracted recently (and not receiving thread notifications, but that seems to be a problem at my end).

It's pretty clear now that balancing the sums alone doesn't always produce good games. I'm going to look into getting a spread of skills on a team when I next switch back to working on the plugin.


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de 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2010, 10:14 
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Has no REAL life! (1669)
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For the plugin to work I can imagine the underlaying database should also be up-to-date.
Yet looking at my stats ( switch to weapon stats tab ) I can see that it still isnt updated with the new Polycount items, giving me a far lower skill rating because The Eternal Reward has a skill mod of 1 instead of 2 like the normal knife.

Also it displays my favorite weapon as Stickylauncher and I would like to have that fixed, too. :ugly:


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2010, 13:06 
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Illiterate (9)
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It uses your Steam stats, not those.


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de 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2010, 14:09 
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Has no REAL life! (1669)
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That may be even worse if it balances through peoples most lucky moments / most time spent on idle servers killing afk players. :o

I thought it grabs the data kill/death/skill with assists and useful actions data from the servers own database. :(


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: New team balancer
PostPosted: 31 Oct 2010, 14:37 
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Illiterate (9)
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It uses lifetime kills and lifetime minutes, not best moments. This is all mentioned in the OP. :P


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