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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2011, 15:58 
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[SpA]ProtectMyBalls wrote:
[SpA]annarack wrote:
There are some good ideas forming here. When I have more time, i.e. not at work, I will note down the good ideas. Once saintK and I have some spare time we shall see what we can do to get these ideas rolling.

May I suggest that whatever we do that we give it a trial of a few weeks or so and then report back as to whether it was a +ve or a -ve.
Sounds good to me, may suggest though reporting back after 1 week of live testing, just because i really dont want to go through that long process of inviting people back again and creating fill teams again if there are issues that drive away the player base.

Look forward to seeing the proposed solution :)
We work by valve time so a week is fine.


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gb 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2011, 16:06 
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lol, i miss wrote my post, i meant we would report back in a week of implementation. Only because, if they are significant changes, then it would be beneficial for all that any issues are reported ASAP, to ensure the player base is sustained.

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2011, 16:07 
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is Wonder Woman (5950)
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[SpA]ProtectMyBalls wrote:
lol, i miss wrote my post, i meant we would report back in a week of implementation. Only because, if they are significant changes, then it would be beneficial for all that any issues are reported ASAP, to ensure the player base is sustained.
:5:

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2011, 00:16 
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is Wonder Woman (5950)
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Ok, so, next step. As I mentioned, there have been some good ideas so now let's start to test out your ideas. Saint and I will be working on this quite soon. I know the fun server has kicked in which is good timing because it means we can work on the changes while you all have your fun ^^

Can't quite remember all of what has been mentioned (yeah ok, too lazy to read back through the posts). But what did stick in my mind were these ideas:
  • having a different map rotation according to the time of day
    lowering the time limit on certain maps (depending on time of day, maybe)
    changing the map rotation so it's not so monotonous
    adding certain maps to spa points
Any more additions to the list that I may have missed?

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 11:24 
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:D

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Last edited by ProtectMyBalls on 01 Apr 2011, 15:28, edited 2 times in total.

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cz 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 11:54 
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Nice post Balls!

I would also suggest adding pl_upward into the rotation, I like it and don't think it's too unpopular.

And I also prefer original cp_gorge to the cp5_gorge, but that just is my personal bias, so...

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 11:57 
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Thanks bro! :5: I didn't spend a day preparing it or anything i swear! ^^

I love upward, but again its one of those maps that we have seen big drops on, so if it was to be slotted in, would need to be placed around some popular maps to help maintain its numbers.

If cp_gorge is to be added, it too needs to be slotted some where appropriate in the rotation, and also have its time limited to 2 rounds only.

:D

P.S. For the record, i really don't hate any map. The rotation just needs to be made so it keeps the fussy people on board, but also helps promote and encourage them to try new things like Howard mentioned. Hopefully, having a few less popular maps will help break their shell.

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gb 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 12:08 
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Sounds good to me balls, though I'm not sure about shortening dustbowl, when attacking, things get pretty rough paticularly when teams need a scramble, blue just has to hide in the spawn :lol: but yeah after pushing like crazy and being totally pummeled it's nice to do a bit of defending on it. My kdr is crap while attacking, defending always evens it out, and I think that's probably the case for others.

I'm gonna to have to buy freight a few times, you mentioned it was more of 6v6 but it seemed to be a good map even for some ridiculous 32v32 server, so I'll see if it's any good for us.

Also I'd like try cp_gorge, seems like it'd be a very different game to cp5_gorge. Upward however, is an alright map, but I just get some insane lag on it, same for frontier, and I have no idea why :|


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de 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 12:23 
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Gravelpit should switch sides.

Also I would like the possibility to trade in 2000 SpA points for something like a frying pan. :ugly:


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 12:26 
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JuncoPartner wrote:
Sounds good to me balls, though I'm not sure about shortening dustbowl, when attacking, things get pretty rough paticularly when teams need a scramble, blue just has to hide in the spawn :lol: but yeah after pushing like crazy and being totally pummeled it's nice to do a bit of defending on it. My kdr is crap while attacking, defending always evens it out, and I think that's probably the case for others.

I'm gonna to have to buy freight a few times, you mentioned it was more of 6v6 but it seemed to be a good map even for some ridiculous 32v32 server, so I'll see if it's any good for us.

Also I'd like try cp_gorge, seems like it'd be a very different game to cp5_gorge. Upward however, is an alright map, but I just get some insane lag on it, same for frontier, and I have no idea why :|
Yeah the dustbowl suggestion needs some discussion, ultimately i dont think it will change in duration; also i too enjoy both attacking and defending on it; cp_gorge is the same style of attack and defend.

Freight is a fun map, i dont think i have tried it on a 24 person server, but other pubbies do do it, so thats cool! Only issue atm is, the current freight map in the spapoints menu is the old one.
Dekar wrote:
Gravelpit should switch sides.
That was the plan, each team gets a chance to attack and defend, but that is it. Currently it goes on for like 4 rounds or something.

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 12:55 
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is Wonder Woman (5950)
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Thanks for the ESSAY Balls ^^

Hopefully I can make a start on some of this tonight.


Also a thank you to everyone else for their comments and feedback :26

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de 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 12:56 
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Oh, it was dustbowl you wrote about. Then I would say... switch sides but remove stage 3 completly. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 12:58 
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[SpA]ProtectMyBalls wrote:
Yeah the dustbowl suggestion needs some discussion, ultimately i dont think it will change in duration; also i too enjoy both attacking and defending on it; cp_gorge is the same style of attack and defend.

Freight is a fun map, i dont think i have tried it on a 24 person server, but other pubbies do do it, so thats cool! Only issue atm is, the current freight map in the spapoints menu is the old one.
Ah well we'll be needing the new freight then, I might give the old one a run it's probably just got some stuff that can be exploited or something. It looks like it would be a lot of fun on a 24v24 server.

It's the second stage on dustbowl that can be infuriating the others aren't as hard to break out of, but if the teams aren't fair it's just impossible, I'd really like to see something like autoscramble, so the servers are more playable when no admins are on.


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 13:17 
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[SpA]annarack wrote:
Thanks for the ESSAY Balls ^^
Hopefully I can make a start on some of this tonight.
its okay, its been reduced to 2/5 now.

JuncoPartner wrote:
It's the second stage on dustbowl that can be infuriating the others aren't as hard to break out of, but if the teams aren't fair it's just impossible,
This can sometimes be down to map design, but its pretty annoying on the 2nd stage even if the teams are balanced.
JuncoPartner wrote:
I'd really like to see something like autoscramble, so the servers are more playable when no admins are on.
- point has been removed -

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Last edited by ProtectMyBalls on 01 Apr 2011, 15:47, edited 2 times in total.

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nl 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 13:49 
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spa points information is not up for public discussion. SpA points is for us a tool to connect with the community in a way we feel fit. This is not up for public discussion.


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nl 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 14:17 
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For the sake of discussion I've stripped down the post and moved the topic back.


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de 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 14:27 
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[SpA]ProtectMyBalls wrote:
Hello All,

Right I've done my home work, been on other servers and spent some time just thinking about major improvements to the TF2 servers and have produced the following report which is designed to improve and optimise the TF2 servers in order to stimulate and preserve our current player base and visitors.

I'm going to keep this very objective and try not to ramble on too much about the reasons behind these suggestions.

1. Map Rotation.
Code:
cp_badlands
cp5_gorge
pl_goldrush
koth_lakeside_final
pl_dustbowl
cp_steel
cp_granary
pl_badwater
plr_nightfall_final
cp_fastlane
pl_frontier_final
cp_gravelpit
cp_coldfront
cp_granary
plr_hightower
This is my new layout for the rotation, which doesn't involve removing the less popular maps, but instead balances out the layout out them so they are spread out between popular maps. This is designed to encourage people to "stick out" the less popular maps, as they know a "good one" is coming up next and help stablise drops in players (as two "bad" maps in a row can be potentially fatal). I have also suggested we re-insert hightower into the mix as there is no longer a reason to exclude this if nightfall is still in rotation. However, can we please double check it has the same time limitations as the other PLR maps, it shouldn't go on any longer than 2 rounds (or 10-15mins max). Thank you.

2. Specific Map Optimisations

Can we make cp_Gravelpit last only 2 rounds. So each team has a chance to attack and defend and that is it. Make it short and sweet to avoid a grind, as I have witnessed this map going on for too long can reduce player numbers.

This idea has been kicked about by some admins (and I have seen it work on some other servers), which is to make cp_dustbowl only last for 1 round (3 stages) and that is it. So one team attacks and defends only. This map often drags out for far too long, it could be suggestible to make it a bit more snappy.

- If it is a steam roll and the map is going to quickly, admins need to insure that they scramble promptly and or, see the return of an auto scramble if the first map is capped in X amount of time.

EDIT: This suggestion might need some more feedback or disscussion, as you come to issues with the attackers not getting to the 2nd cp of the first stage, or past the 1st cp on the 2nd stage.. so what happens then? does the map just end? hmmmmm thoughts?
Good job and worth a try.

Unpopular maps only have the prob ,that once a critical amount of people leaves in a short time, it is difficult to fill up the server again even with a popular map. Surely depending of the daytime. ;)


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de 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 14:42 
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Do we really need granary twice in the rotation?
Is granary everyones favorite map now? :|


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 15:06 
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granary twice is probably just a mistake :p

1) I assume it is just me who thinks that cp_5gorge is possibly the worst map ever made and should be replaced with the normal gorge, or better yet just removed? I would go into reasons, but I can't be bothered if everyone loves it.

2) Is there a bug on gravelpit on the servers where there is no overtime?

3) There have also been huge lags on the servers which a lot of people have been complaining about when I've been on them. I have heard some other server admins say it was to do with the latest patch, but their lags were more like constantly reduced rates/interp lags rather than freezes.

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 15:29 
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[SpA]SaintK wrote:
For the sake of discussion I've stripped down the post and moved the topic back.
so why delete point 3?

Edit: also i hope there is a backup of point 4 somewhere for anna.

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Last edited by ProtectMyBalls on 01 Apr 2011, 15:30, edited 1 time in total.

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de 
 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 15:29 
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I like cp5_gorge because it offers 2 height levels and alternative routes on the whole map. :)


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 16:17 
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Height levels are good, but every route is through a cramped doorway, there is actually hardly any height to the map since unless it's a roll it's too easy to defend from the middle cap, whether you lose it or win it. Although I've only played it once.

It's the same thing with cp_gorge, the hard part is the inside, so why the hell would you make it the middle cap point?

The middle cap point should be the first cap point in cp_5gorge imo.

Maybe it's because I like being able to use movement on a map rather than just spamming down a corridor (the main reason I hate pl maps).

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 16:32 
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so autoscramblings out of the question? :|

I mean I haven't been playing long, but whenever I play before the evening the stacking can be ridiculous, it's a shame because besides this issue we have a great server, I don't play on it just because it's a SpA server. Usually I try to base my playtime when there's a SpA member on, but I really shouldn't have to.

I mean going to IRC to drag an admin on is a little much, especially for players not familiar with the community. Any solution would help, like allow SpA members to scramble through the console?


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 17:10 
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I would like auto-scramble as well

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 17:52 
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if anyone wants to have a crack at getting the settings right for the autoscrambler, be me guest; i tried before and fucked it so bad that we just don't use it anymore.

i'll read through this thread properly + give a decent reply later, cos this looks interesting :5:

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 18:08 
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Why not just ask other people who run servers with autoscramble? I'm sure they would be willing to help. I'll get on the case at some point if no one else does.

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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 18:10 
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Are there no tf2 auto-scramble settings available in the internet that we could copy/download? Like that day/night map rotation script?

As a side note, I haven't been an active player for long so pretty much everything is alright with me, but Ball's post does make a lot of sense, thanks for taking the time to write it.

Edit: Moose posted the same idea. Be cursed, brain, for not coming up with anything original.


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2011, 18:22 
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matude wrote:
Are there no tf2 auto-scramble settings available in the internet that we could copy/download?
Probably, other servers must have got it from somewhere.
matude wrote:
As a side note, I haven't been an active player for long so pretty much everything is alright with me, but Ball's post does make a lot of sense, thanks for taking the time to write it.
aw, it's nice to feel appreciated, thanks. :5:

Glad to see that even though the point was deleted, people are still commentating on the need for it.

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-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2011, 14:05 
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Code:
cp_badlands
cp5_gorge
pl_goldrush
koth_lakeside_final
pl_dustbowl
cp_steel
pl_badwater
plr_nightfall_final
cp_fastlane
pl_frontier_final
cp_gravelpit
cp_coldfront
cp_granary
plr_hightower
Fixed, the double granary (couldn't decide where it would be more useful). Hopefully Anna can get round to updating the rotation soon.

Dustbowl, can probably stay the way it is, but Gravelpit should be limited to 2 rounds.

Anna can you also check if hightower will be controlled by the same race cfg that does nightfall and pipeline, i.e. lasting 2 rounds/10-15mins or whatever time it was, can't remember of the top of my head. I'll PM this to you as well. Appreciate it :D

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."


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 Post subject: Re: The Map Rotation
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2011, 17:30 
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I noticed last night that pl_frontier_final goes on for more than 2 round, unlike any of the other payload maps, can we possibly add this to the payload cfg so it only runs for 2 rounds please. Thank you :D

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-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."


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