Didn't found a topic on this so here it is:

There are some nice maps in the selection... also some weird and/or stupid maps. Here some single critics:

cp_science: Quite nice after getting the locations.
cp_aqua: Hmm... some nice ideas. Water speedway ("swift waters") ftw! It's ok.
cp_junction_v2: Nice. Quite straightforwared and fair.
ctf_moonwalk_v2. Funny low gravity, but sucks at all.
ctf_chaos: I like it. Simple design and quick fun.
ctf_barn: Please change my vote for "Barn" to the worst value there is. Rated it better then it was in the end. With 2 enemy snipers aiming for the only spawn exit, it isn't any fun... also it's too opened in my eyes. Could be better for a Battlefield game. Imho it doesn't match the classes at all.
ctf_freezers_v2: Quit here... first look was ugly indoor and nice outdoor gfx.
pl_dustbowl: Only played the last 30s of the round . Would have loved to test it.
cp_vertigo_beta3: That's a funny map. Like it. Also quite fast.

So far some feedback in addition to the ingame votes.

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SaintK: I'm completely lost

http://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopi ... =35&t=3185

^^

Thanks for the input, though.

I'll be commenting on the maps after the weekend as well... So far I could only post initial impressions and the lessons I learned on other custom map servers...

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

You have written this after me!

I thought seperating the feedback from the announcment and technial stuff would be a good idea...

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SaintK: I'm completely lost

I didn't post the above at all. :-D

My initial impressions on the SpA servers and with the SpA players who mostly played the maps for the first time:

cp_science: I really like the map and it didn't receive too many bad ratings even though "some" vocal players bashed it from the beginning for no reason at all. It's one of the better scripted maps I've ever seen - it has a kind of non-linear layout BUT there are really nice blinking arrows showing you the way (they change dynamically as the control points are captured!) and even info-maps that change dynamically as well.
cp_junction_v2: I know this map very well because it's very popular on custom map servers. Yes, it's quite balanced and pretty straightforward but I think this may be its main weakness as well. It's a bit too bland to be really worthwhile - not as bland as turbine (visually) by any means but still...
ctf_moonwalk_v2: I'd like to hear some more opinions why this map sucks. It isn't that good, I agree, but I don't see any major design faults. The intelligence is pretty accessible, a spy can traverse the WHOLE central area on one cloak, the route between the intelli rooms is actually shorter than on e.g. 2fort or ctf_well and the map is quite atmospheric as well. I don't really know why people are being so negative although I value their input. =)
ctf_chaos: I like it as well. I played on previous version a lot but this one is very much improved with many problems ironed out. It's pretty fast but not without strategic considerations. The funny thing is the layout - the bases are next to each other, not facing each other and the various paths are structured vertically, with three different floors, and not horizontally.
ctf_barn: You can change your rating later on. You can also change it by typing !maprate in the chat. Yep, I have foreseen problems like that but that's why I wanted to test the map because it's quite unusual. I haven't played it on the SpA servers yet, though and the only server I found it on had disabled snipers on this particular map. ;-)
ctf_freezers_v2: Another map that is quite popular and which I know very well. I agree with the ugly interiors and nice exteriors. I kinda like the map because it has a VERY fair intelligence placement and nice alternate routes where even snipers can play aggressively (in the canyon) - on a ctf map!
pl_dustbowl: Well, it's dustbowl but with a cart. I like it because it's a bit fairer towards the attacking team...
cp_vertigo_beta3: I was pretty surprised that it worked so well. It's a port from CS, of course, but it has been adapted for TF2 and that's nice. Some people bitched that point A is pretty unreachable with too many sentries BUT the ramp makes it actually VERY easy to take them out with stickies - you don't even need to get into their shooting range. Our team won the map twice and I destroyed ALL the sentries myself. Two thumbs up. =)
ctf_mach4: Doesn't really need any comments because it is in the SpA-shop already. I have to say that to me it is like 2fort done right and I really like it. It also uses some nice post-processing effects to make it look very "soft" and polished. It could very well be my favorite map - not to mention that it's quite popular on custom map servers and even in clan wars!

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

Cheater!

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SaintK: I'm completely lost

I agree with you on barn, I've played freezer and I didn't really like it but it does have some good points :S
junction however, I really really liked.. it's really compact for a cp map and indeed straightforward ^^

Yeah. As soons as you got the (even mirrored) setup of the map (pressing 'i' gives even an topview) it's real fun. It's quite fast, has good defensive positions and a relative easy structure. Some people said that it has too many ways(?). Hadn't the feeling, but perhaps running freakin around as a scout so that you easily can get from A to B doesn't make that feeling. In addition you can guard each of the cp quite well with 2 cooperating engis (1 guarding the cp and 1 guarding the other ^^).
Hmm... I my opinion the base design doesn't match the classes (like on Barn) that good. I didn't walk around that match, just running a bit as Scout and then sticked on Engi to try different sg positions. Imho the closed areas are to widened. The tunnels are too opened for my taste and the central low gravity bowl is really funny, but hard to play if you don't train the movement there... at least if you jump . I cannot really bring the points down why it sucks... it's some bad overall feeling.

And it could use some more colors... quite colorless at all.
The map itself has a really nice look. I thought "wow this looks nice" in the first 2 minutes... but playing on it reduced my opinion about it with every second. Sometimes I waited at the spawn that some teammate passed the door (and got shot) so that I can get out without being sniped. And that shouldn't be on a any good map. It's a must that the spawn exit gets turned away from the open range or get's some cover. Perhaps I was just unlucky, but I tried almost every class:

* Scout => got burned by pyro and shot by better scouts
* Solider => headshot
* Pyro => headshot and/or bulleted by heavy
* Sniper => has too much good positions, but my aiming/timing sucks (disabled snipers on that map seems a must-have :/)
* Engi => with 3 engis you can guard the 3 tunnels to the intel very well
* Spy => I hate spies and cannot play'em... but I killed 2 snipers after finally getting out of the spawn in the 3rd try... even got sniped while being cloaked (door open => BAMM)... cloaking and crouching out could work
* Medic => No real mate there to heal and you simply get sniped or burned
* Heavy => Too slow on this map and big head for headshots... could work as a stationary mg in cover
* Demo => area too opened so only can defend intel

At least that are my feelings on it... I'm not the best player at all, but imho the map simply sucks totally.

"You can also change it by typing !maprate in the chat" => That would mean that I have to play it again... :/
As I quitted for the evening after 2 minutes I only have the visual feedback.
Yeah... I think it's quite funny and has a neat balancing. There are some sneaky ways to get around and if your teammates wait in the elevator for you before "pressing" the button (I think I need a spray "Please wait for your teammates!" ^^), you won't have any big problems.
Haven't played on this "wonder" map yet, but I only hear positive feedback. ^^

So I'm eager to test the other maps. Hope that I can spare some time for this... again... yesterday I luckily could play some hours...

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SaintK: I'm completely lost

some maps are really good, others are totally shit ass speedcore...


aqua was pretty fun to play on, and i really like that cp map where you have to get A and B first(i forgot the name). i'll update the name as soon as i played it again .. the map where you have to cap clockwise is awesome too...


the rest is not worth mentioning if you ask me <3

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Sebas the avenging zebra's sidekick! <3

Thought I'd post some feedback here cause- ... dunno, I'm just bored I suppose.

Just a note; this might be a bit of a subjective feedback, since I didn't play all the classes on all the maps, mostly just the sneaky ones, pyro and spy, who thrive in dark caves and humid places, and rely on close combat/sneak attacks.

The quarry map v2 or whatever the name was. A bit too open for my taste. Found it hard to get into the enemy base, since there was snipers on the catwalk and the carts down in the mines were just annoying. At least there are signal lights on the well maps when the train is on it's way, here it's just a set interval that you have to constantly remind yourself of when you try to traverse the mines.
Also, when you jump down in the pit with the carts, and don't really know which way you came from (my sense of direction is equal to that of a toaster :s ) a pair of colored signs would be nice to have around to help you orientate yourself, so you don't run into the enemy base and get shot down by sentries, when you just wanted a resupply. Happend to me more than once :/ Seemed hard to get the hands on the enemy intel also.

The Chaos map is rather enjoyable, if not the one i like the best of them i've tried. Rather simple map and easy to find your way through. Perhaps a few more health pickups besides the full one on the middle platform between the castles, I can't recall seeing any more than that one.

The moonmap was fun to fool around on with the low gravity, especially as scout and his double jump. Really enjoyed that :) A bit hard to get your hand on the intel perhaps, though I didn't try that hard since I was bouncing around in the moonarea fooling around, had a hard time taking the map serious ;P

Auqa. I kinda like this one. Some points were harder than others to defend, or everyone was just new to the map and didn't get there in time to defend it, I don't know :P Think it was RED that had a long way from spawn to the nearest point on one stage of the map, didn't like that, took time to resupply and to get to the point in time to defend it after you'd waited 15 sec to respawn already. All in all, I enjoyed this map :)

That was all for now, those are the maps I remember somewhat, and I got bored with posting posts. I don't like forums! :O
Wanna play some more TF2 instead :)
Hope the feedback helps o/

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"There is a simple, logical explanation... and there is nothing under the bed.”

Thanks for the feedback - yeah, your input is highly valued. ^^

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

More detailed reviews of the maps (including some observations by certain players) - I might forward them to the map designers if I feel a certain map has the potential to be great with some minor tweaks.

ctf_mach4: Is already on our servers, has received a very high rating and in my opinion needs no further comment. It's the perfect small fast-paced CTF map. If you have problems with it then you probably don't like the CTF gameplay type or prefer slower games...

cp_junction_v2: Before joining the SpA servers I used to play on many custom maps. I must have played on junction like 20 or 30 times by now... It is a very Valve-like map with balanced gameplay and high-quality visuals BUT in my eyes this is also its biggest weakness - it follows a very safe, non-innovative design to please the crowds without introducing anything new which I expect from custom maps - their designers are not bound by sales, contracts and whatnot and can essentially experiment with various things - maybe something will catch on. This makes me rate the map as good but not excellent. Not to mention that the last point needs some minor tweaks - building dispensers in the doors of the CP to make a spy's job virtually impossible, building ON the CP... Of course this is nothing that can't be overcome with a well-organized push BUT is objectively speaking bad design (or just some oversights)...

Ah - I forgot one:

pl_dustbowl_b4: Now, this map made me doubt our rating system a bit. You know - it's Dustbowl, everybody knows Dustbowl, Dustbowl is awesome (open for debate)! So OBVIOUSLY pl_dustbowl_b4 received high ratings because the map can't be bad, right? WRONG! This isn't even a custom map! It's simply cp_dustbowl with some slapped on tracks (most of which were already there) and a cart. cp_dustbowl is NOT a payload map and there's a reason for that and no half-hearted modifications will change that. The map is completely broken gameplay-wise because the layout hasn't been changed even SLIGHTLY to carter for the new gameplay type... During the one hour (two plays) on pl_dustbowl not a single blue team managed to push the cart to the second CP on the FIRST stage... Why? Because the point is even further down than on the cp map and very close to the enemy spawn. It's no problem to capture the point on cp_dustbowl with a well-organized push BUT it IS a problem to push a cart for like 30 seconds in open terrain with the enemy spawn around the corner (not even the spawn times have been altered). Imagine the already quite difficult second point on the second stage of pl_goldrush but with MORE open terrain, less cover, only one route and longer tracks - RIDICULOUS!

ctf_chaos: The map is quite original in that it changes the usual dimensions and routes people are expecting. Bases are next to each other, not facing each other and the routes you're taking are spread across different floors, not a horizontal plane like on most maps. The layout is pretty easy to grasp and snipers at last make a valuable addition to the team on a ctf map from start to finish - both on the offense and the defense. There's plenty of room for all the classes to shine and because of some smart layout designs a simple sentry-turtling strategy won't work if the whole team doesn't work together. I definitely like the map and it got high ratings as well.

cp_vertigo_beta3: Just like Spikespiegel I dislike remakes or ports from other MODs BUT this one has been adapted to TF2 very well. I would say that the map is "inspired" by de_vertigo, rather than a port/remake of it. The last section, for example, is completely new and original and reflects the TF2 spirit perfectly (RED building a huge evil-genius style satellite dish on the roof of a IMMENSELY high building - I made screenshots of the brilliant surroundings)... Sadly the map has some HUGE technical problems on the last CP which need to be fixed - this is a beta after all. I'll contact the designer on this.

cp_redstone_b2: A map by the quite famous Arttu "skdr" Mäki (dod_northbound, cp_fastlane) it clearly is designed to be "Valve-ready" with lots of small details some map-makers are forgetting about, like the odd bottle here and there or some barrels not serving any gameplay purpose. The only problem I have with this map are the huge underused sections between the second/forth and center CPs... There's one empty area of the size of the middle section on cp_granary... There are underused buildings... And the time it takes to reach the center CP is ridiculous with the rest of the team arriving like half a minute after all the scouts... I think these sections are just artificial padding to show off the designer's map-making skills. I only give this map a "good" rating and expect it to be improved in future versions since this is only a beta.

ctf_geothermal_b2: I was pretty skeptical towards this map after realizing that it's pretty big but I was surprised how playable it was. The ratings it received also show that players were quite content with it. The central area, while pretty big, is masterfully designed to avoid fps drops and allow alternative routes that are very easy to grasp. The route between the intelligence rooms is actually shorter than on ctf_2fort and very balanced for both the attacking and the defending team. The map also allows for snipers to shine while not being untouchable and engaging in stupid duels... The intelligence rooms themselves are very boldly designed - they are HUGE. But hey, it turns out this works and should be perhaps looked into by other map-makers. Because of its size it's virtually impossible to camp the room with sentries and expect to stop the enemy that way - you clearly have to FIGHT on the offense and defense... Also - there are plenty of well-placed health packs and even some pools of waters which became more or less a necessity after the Pyro update if you know what I mean. ^^

cp_egypt_v2: Gorgeous looking map with a nice cartoonish look which fits the TF2 VERY well. Sadly bad map design on the technical side prevented it from getting more exposure... We weren't even able to learn the intricacies of the map so that we might see the 2 remaining sections of it... Definitely needs a fix which is why I'll contact the map designer. I sure want to see more of this one.

ccp_circlejerk_rc1: Now - this map has seen ups and downs throughout the weekend depending on the people who played on it. It was rated higher than both fastlane and badlands for a while. ^^
The map virtually introduces a new gameplay mode where you need to capture CPs in a circular motion. It also has some crazy backstory which I can't recall right now. Enough to say that people, surprisingly, seemed to like it. The instructions are very clear - move clockwise to attack, counter-clockwise to defend. All the points have nice, easy to remember and recognize symbols which lead to pretty nice team coordination (defend the boot! Attack the cactus!). The four sections are also very varied which makes for an awesome gameplay experience - two of them are quite open and two pretty small. Everywhere on the map there are also signs so that you don't get lost. Initially people always rush to the next CP which makes the map more of a scout race BUT after a couple of rounds smart players realize that by placing the odd sentry here and there or staying back on the CP you need to defend can stall the other team just long enough for your team-mates to catch up from the other side and lead you to victory. The map is also very popular on custom servers and I can only give it a big thimbs up although I'd like to see some tc_hydro/cp_science dynamic arrows on it.

cp_science: Now, this is a map that has probably one of the steeper learning curves out there although the basic layout is pretty simple (a cross which has to be captured in a zig-zag motion). Funnily enough the gameplay on the center 3 points resembles ccp_circlejerk because you have to both attack and defend a point at the same time - however, the last CP is "fixed" to make for some standard attack/last-stand action. Now - in my opinion the map is quite underrated BUT it was "on the rise" when people learned how to play it - from a score of about 2.3 it climbed up to ~2.9 and we don't know how that would change in time. What people don't understand initially is that there is not clear "front line" - that is, even if you capture a CP the other team STILL has easy access to it which means you must set up defense there. Also, despite being quite big, all the routes on the map are quite short with running times of like a dozen seconds to each CP. It has interiors, epic fights on the central point, exteriors, sniper spots, well-placed health-packs (except for the "Power" points - Magisk noted that and I'll contact the map maker on that one)... Pyros seem to be very strong on this map but only because you are fighting for the central point most of the time and because of the non-linear nature of the map ambushes with the Backburner are easy to pull of. Not many people place sticky bombs on top of the central point or build offensive sentries but I guess they'd learn with time. On the other hand Pyros are pretty useless on the "power" and "laser" CPs - there's always a time and place for everything.
Last but not least this is like THE best designed map from a purely technical standpoint EVER... I'm not joking... There are HUGE blinking arrows changing dynamically depending on which points you control, even the small "control point ->" arrows change colors... There's an overview map ON THE WALL OF THE SPAWN that changes its layout to inform you immediately what your team's situation is - kinda like a mini-radar. There are doors that open and close depending on the gameplay state, spawns are moving and capturing the last CP activates a laser to keep up with the map's crazy theme of two scientific teams competing for access to power generators to conduct some experiments... If it weren't for all the amazing scripting this would be like the most confusing and perhaps worst map ever (initially - nobody would care to learn it) but with all the effort the designer has put into this the only thing he could have implemented to make the map more obvious would be like gluing people to a conveyor belt. Call me a fanboy but if I ever get to decide on any map cycle on any custom map server THIS map would certainly be on it simply as a tribute to what skills some map designers possess (I guess players would learn to appreciate it after a couple of weeks as well. =)
P.S. I made a boo-boo for the weekend - there's a newer, improved version of cp_science I overlooked so I'll have to test this one. ^^

ctf_quarry_v2: A classic case of good map, needs to be fixed. It also rose in rank as time went by BUT many people made very keen observations that it needs a bit more anti-sniper cover on the ground level and most important of all: HEALTH AND AMMO PACKS. I mean - there's e.g. not a SINGLE one in the enemy base so you're dead if you encounter a sentry because you won't be able to heal after your long journey and "mobile" enemies will be getting on your ass anyway. There are so many spots that simply BEG for a medpack/ammopack combo to be placed there - even the small ones... After the Pyro update med-packs have become a necessity so that you can extinguish yourself. Having said that the basic premise of the map is quite nice and the visuals are awesome. We had many aweosme rounds and quite a lot of laughs on that one. I will be DEFINITELY contacting the map designer.

dom_canalzone_b2: This is a domination type map - a gameplay type which was present e.g. in Quake 3 Fortress (in fact this map is a port of a Q3 map) and the code for which, funnily, seems to be present in TF2 as well. The map designer - Vilepickle of ctf_mach4, ctf_chaos, cp_castle4 and others fame - requested this map be tested so we put it on the server on Sunday. It is a VERY confusing map with 8 CPs and the more you capture the faster the "domination meter" for your team rises. If it reaches 100%, you win. A bit like BF2 in reverse. This is only a beta version and is quite rough on the edges but I can see this one becoming quite good. What the map DEFINITELY needs are more directions... Maybe vilepickle should take some lessons from Mark "Shmitz" Major, the author of cp_science...

cp_aqua: TF2 meets Bioshock - these are the comments I heard and they're true. Visually the map is stunning, sadly it didn't see much gameplay with FULL teams which lead to its low rating. I know some people who changed their mind about this map after playing it a couple of times because it is, indeed, quite good with some tricks up its sleeve. Basically BLU are invading RED's secret underwater lab to gain access to some weird red-crystal mine. ^^
This is an attack-defense style map with two stages and isn't nearly as confusing as some people think initially - the basic layout is strictly linear with some pathways running parallel to the main route. The "swift water" (an in-theme name for teleporters) feature is quite cool and funny as well. Not to mention that the map has some nice scripting as well. Some people claimed that it is too "defense heavy" but I disagree. I had team that complained precisely the other way round - I think it's just a matter of adapting to the situation. Did I mention that because of some under-water sections, medpacks-a-plenty and the linear layout Pyros aren't as strong here as elsewhere? Pyro-haters should love this map. ^^

ctf_moonwalk_v2: This map disappeared from our map cycle and rightly so. Initially one might think that there's nothing wrong with it - the theme is cool, there are crashed rockets, the Earth and whatnot outside the glass sphere you're playing in and even RED and BLU have been renamed to Rocket Entertainment Division and Battlecruiser Landing Unit respectively. However, the huge center section, the long runs to the intelligence (with only one way leading to it, making for sucky ctf_2fort gameplay - there, you see how you'd rate 2fort if it were a custom map ;-) and the lowered gravity make this more of a non-fun fun-map than anything. There are also long, bland corridors and the huge center area leads to incredibly annoying sentry-camping... I liked the map initially but then changed my mind - it would be far better as a deathmatch map and it doesn't suit the TF2 classes too well...

ctf_freezers_v2: Another one of the very popular custom maps (because it's quite old), I played on it dozens of times but never so many consecutive times as during this weekend and you know what? It opened my eyes... It REALLY isn't very good. There are many points working seemingly in its favor like the fact that snipers can be very useful on the offense BUT except for the quite cool canyons which I would like to see implemented on another map the visuals are bland, the huge areas around the intelligence lead to chaotic, uninteresting fights and usually end in one team spawn-camping which is far too easy here... Nah, I'll pass on this one - especially since I know it that well...

ctf_barn: Swiftly removed from the map cycle, our worst rated map and rightly so. It looks quite OK but would be better used as a showcase for "open" maps using the Source Engine than a TF2 map... Note to map makers - OPEN MAPS DO NOT WORK IN TF2. The narrow corridors around the intelligence where not even 2 people can squeeze by are controversial, to say the least, as well... All in all this one is a no-no and no amount of fixing would change that.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell