[Map Release] cp_indulge FINAL 1.0

Finally final!

Indulge is a completely original, Sawmill-themed 5CP map that is very fun on public servers. It does not stalemate as much as traditional 5CP maps on public servers, and uses height more than most 5CP maps. The map comes off the heels of my other 5CP map that has made it into many leagues. I consider Indulge to be a refinement of my experience on cp_follower, and playtesting has shown the map has a lot of variation and strategies. The development cycle was long, and there was plenty of time for anyone who wished to submit their feedback. I listened to everyone, even if they did present things that weren't implemented.

Download/Screenshots: http://www.vilepickle.com/map/screens/tf2_cp_indulge

FINAL 1.0 CHANGES/FIXES:
-Fixed clipping bug at CP2 at the top of a building
-Various lighting and detail tweaks
-Made lamp outside from CP2 to CP3 solid to stand on
-Made the CP1 route added in RC3 wider near the end
-Made the CP3 - CP4 left side route more visible with arrow
-Made health pack near CP2 more visible with decals
-Made CP2 ramps around the point into steps (still act as ramps, visual change only)
-Reduced saw "spinning" sound (it got a little annoying), the damaging sound is still full volume

Hi Vile!

The map is pretty as usual. Sadly SpA rotations still aren't very custom friendly If we would have custom maps in the rotation your maps would be my first choice.

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We should still include it in the next test run for custom maps, every map from you is always awesome

Map looks great quality as usual, gtg out now so i cant comment more!

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

maybe a anouced test night for everybody would be good?

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"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving."

You seem to be pretty on the grid there.

Try breaking linearity of space when you'll do a next pack of fixes or even next map.

Thanks vilepickle... Looks high-quality as usual

I'll just talk with Saint about testing the map and putting it in the spa menu

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

[Map Update] cp_indulge_b2

Indulge has been updated to beta 2 based on feedback this weekend. Please update your copies of the map!

Download and Screenshots: http://www.vilepickle.com/map/screens/tf2_cp_indulge/

Changelog:
BETA 2 CHANGES/FIXES:
General-
-1st forward spawn makes it more obvious where to go upon exit.
-2nd forward spawn location swapped with opposite team (now on your own site of mid)
-2nd forward spawn respawn time reduced to somewhat accomodate increased distance (equals Badlands)
-Saw volume reduced, damage down to 20 per tick (does not instagib)

CP1-
-Removed lower entrance to stop excessive back capping
-Two resupply cabinets are now in spawn
-CP area now more open and cover given to defense to compensate, point is visible from spawn now to prevent ninja caps
-Cap time increased 1 second
-Added a new ramp up to the bridge for ease of exit and another path out of lower area
-Medium ammo added to a risky area down below

CP2-
-Cover added to Cp2
-Rearranged some health packs

CP3-
-Medium HP moved closer to the side building
-Moved the concrete blocks near mid some to prevent the over excessive flanking (flanking is still pretty major though)
-Reduced mid cap time 1 second since the CP is quite vulnerable

Overall a very nice and beautifully detailed map, with a few exceptions.

First of all, the area around point 1 is far too big, and the defending spawn is too far from the point. A last point is supposed to be hard to take, but this proved to be by far the easiest capture point to attack, and it was usually taken in the first attempt to do so. Also, for a first timer, it's not clear that you have to go left when you exit the spawn. I would suggest that the whole area is made smaller, defenders spawn is moved closer to the CP, and that the area under the point and bridge is designed so it comes into play, by adding a pathway towards point 2.

The walk between point 1 and 2 is a bit too long imho, but will get improved by making point 1 smaller.

The area around point 2 is perfect, but the area in the other side seem obsolete. A defender would never use that side to get to the point, and thus it is too easily taken by the attackers, who can then bombard the point from afar. My suggestion would be to remove the whole side.

The walk between points 2 and 3 is wayyy too long, and the courtyard that opens between the two points is much too open. I would make this alot smaller.

Point three is perfect, IMHO.

The distances between the points have to be tweaked alot. When defending point 3, your spawn is much too close to the point, when comparing it to the distance to the attackers spawn. As I said, the start-spawn is too far from point 1, and when attacking the last point the walk to the point from spawn is endless.

As for med-/ammo-packs, you've done a great job at placing them. Even though it was my first time playing, I never had to look for too long for a med-pack and although there were 2 medium and 3 small med-packs around the central point, it didn't feel like an overkill.

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

My suggestion for future change that COULD improve the map:

Move the start spawn up in front of where point1 currently is, add a drop on the opposite side of the spawn: Remove the whole side of what will now be the first point: Add a new point 2 between the current point 2 and 3. This could be done like this:

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

Thanks for the feedback. Those are some really drastic changes that would REALLY make it different. I don't really agree with distances between the points, they are literally almost the same distance as Granary and normal 5cp maps.

CP1 is still a WIP for sure. You can actually go left out of spawn and get to CP2 much faster than any other map since you can walk along that rail. While the side of CP2 is a bit less used, I still think it is needed as a flank (every Cp2 I've seen has a decent flank).

The general consensus was that the map was big. Overall, the map didn't seem bigger than Granary or Well, but the walk up to the points were way too long when you died.

You COULD improve the map by moving some of the spawns up.

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

Map was really cool, loved the rain PFX but yes it did take ages to get anywhere!

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

Even if u could prove that u have exactly the same distance between spawn to middle as in granary, it felt waaay longer for some reason.
But its a really nice map besides.

think its because it's less of a direct route, lots of twists and turns/stairs etc

maybe its cause we never progressed any further than the middle, but are there advanced spawn points other than the starting ones?

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

In the game I was in, each team won once, so we got to experience all the spawns.... The spawn towards the last point is the worst!

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

I just double checked distances with Badlands for the forward spawns. From 1st FS to middle is shorter than badlands by half of my middle section. From 2nd FS to 2nd CP is exactly the same as Badlands 2nd FS to the 2nd point, so it really shouldn't be an issue. If I made it smaller there would be balancing issues with taking points I'm pretty sure.

to be fair ive only played it once and not knowing a map can make it seem longer or harder to find your way, so hopefully play it again soon and get to know it better. Really Cool map thou.

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

I've tested granary, badlands and indulge as heavy.

granary
1st spawn - 3rd point
25 seconds
2nd spawn - 4th point
35
3rd spawn - 5th point
27
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1:27

badlands
1st spawn - 3rd point
34 seconds
2nd spawn - 4th point
31
3rd spawn - 5th point
19
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1:24

indulge
1st spawn - 3rd point
29 seconds
2nd spawn - 4th point
24
3rd spawn - 5th point
32
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1:25

Results might vary by 2 seconds

I want you to do this again sonny, then make some charts, just so that the data is fully valid.

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

I love you sonny :>

Sonny is a very sad person, useful, but sad

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

wait what?

He's joking. Or jocking. You never know with Minimoose.

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Comfortably Numb

I still stand by my statement that the map SEEMS way too big.

Fixing cap1 and adding more detail to some of the more bland paths may improve this, though!

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

I think it is nice, interesting design as well, I agree with the cap 1 changes.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Had fun on this map yesterday.

Sonny, you seriously need to get a GF and a social life, so do i but thats another thread

[Map Update] cp_indulge_b3

Indulge has been updated to beta 3 because of the good amount of solid testing I've been getting. Please update your copies of the map!

Download and Screenshots: http://www.vilepickle.com/map/screens/tf2_cp_indulge/

BETA 3 CHANGES/FIXES:
-CP3 Capture area increased to all of the center house floor
-CP3 capture area now has a skylight to view attackers from above slightly better
-CP2 to CP1 connector simplified
-New ramp added to CP2 up to the ledge into CP1
-CP2 ledge to CP1 now has a small lip for players to stand on
-HP around CP2 moved near the CP to help attackers hold slightly better

Lets test this tonight on #1