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Class Limit Discussions
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=11150		 Page 7 of 7
Author:  ShadowKnight [ 30 Aug 2011, 01:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
A second idea occurred to me. The current role of the NoCrits server seems to me to be friendly to higher skilled veterans rather than newer players. Certainly I hate crits more than anything else in TF2. So has it been considered that you could advertise the NoCrits server specifically as a high-skill pub server? You could have lax class limits on the rest of the servers (Though stricter than they are now on Heavy and Demoman please!), and then have a class limit of 2 (3 Medic) on the NoCrits server, as well as NoCrits, NoSpread, a tighter map selection, and (If your hardware is fast enough) higher NetRate settings for a more LAN-like experience. Pubbers could play their normal game, albeit a fairer game than it is right now, and veterans with much higher skill levels can use the NoCrits server. If that become the domain of predominantly better players, then everyone there should gradually get even better. It would be great.

On a side note, may I request that the NoSpread CVAR be enabled on ALL of your servers? I don't like randomness in a skill-orientated game, and damage spread can make a serious difference in-game. The real upside, however, is that it is a hidden function. No normal pub player is EVER going to notice their damage spread disappear, so you get better game-play AND no complaint? Perfect world anyone?
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 30 Aug 2011, 11:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
The plans for no crits are still in discussion, but they are some good ideas which I share similar opinions on.

As for 2nd, im not 100% sure, but that might affect our match making system. Also, the vanilla servers in general are just public servers and are not intended for serious games; unlike the nocrits server.

Going back a few posts

I'm dead against a zero class limit on any class, TF2 is all about 9 different Classes and a sentry gun. As much as valve may have issue with game balance, the character balancing is pretty good, as each class has there own counter class and benefit. When you take away ALL engys from a map, then the there is hardly anything stopping the scouts destroying all the challenge and gameplay, like on ctf maps and hydro.

To kill a heavy, you shoot them in the face, to kill 4 heavies, you make sure you got 4 bullets, and you shoot them in the face. Simple. 8)
Author:  [SpA]Scatterbrain [ 30 Aug 2011, 12:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
i think you're kinda missing the point - it's only for near empty servers, and only until they get to the 6/8 players mark. yeah heavies are killable in that situation, but it's still enough to cause people to whinge and generally creates a bad feeling, which has a pretty negative effect on a server that's just getting started for the day. servers tend to fill themselves up once they get past 6/8 players anyway, it's just getting to that stage that's the hard bit. just thought that this would help that process along :)
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 30 Aug 2011, 12:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Aw sorry mate must have missed that part, i'm not sure if the class limiter is that versatile but I'm sure we can have a look at it and see if it is possible. It is a very good point though mate. :D
Author:  sebas [ 30 Aug 2011, 16:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Scatter, unless that heavy is camping a large or full medpack he can be taken down. Easily if he's not a great heavy, with a bit of work if he is. Then again, a soldier camping a medpack would be just as hard to take down.

I completely agree with Balls on the rock-paper-scissors balance. You need all classes playable or the class missing it's most obvious counter will be running wild.
Author:  annarack [ 30 Aug 2011, 16:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
No no no no, it's rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock....jeez :shock:
Author:  [SpA]uvpurple [ 30 Aug 2011, 17:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
oh aye, i bet your all about the spocking!
Author:  [SpA]JuncoPartner [ 30 Aug 2011, 17:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Yeah I get what Scatter's saying when we're filling a server then someone goes heavy, or engie, and the game just stops, people rage and leave. Not sure much can be doen about that.
Author:  [SpA]Scatterbrain [ 30 Aug 2011, 17:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
[SpA]sebas wrote:
Scatter, unless that heavy is camping a large or full medpack he can be taken down. Easily if he's not a great heavy, with a bit of work if he is. Then again, a soldier camping a medpack would be just as hard to take down.
yep! totally agree. people still like to complain and leave though.
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 30 Aug 2011, 17:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
No, sorry Anna is correct, you guys are WRONG DAMMIT!

:mrgreen:

Seriously though, if the server is filling and someone goes one of those classes all you need to do is...
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 30 Aug 2011, 23:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Don't see the issue with a not-full server. What would you allow? I mean... 6 players with half of them spies isn't fun at such a time, too.

"Hey our server is empty at the moment. Please stay here and fill it, but you're only allowed to player Soldier. All other classes aren't good with less people."
Author:  annarack [ 18 Oct 2011, 01:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Class Limits are now set. All characters are now limited to 3. Thank you to everyone that gave us feedback. Very much appreciated. We couldn't have come to a decision without you'se all :grouphug:
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 18 Oct 2011, 13:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Yay... I'm eager to see how this works out. Will give feedback soon. :5:
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 18 Oct 2011, 14:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
was pretty sweet last night, good games :D

a limit of 3 is just a nice balance, still allows enough people to play the class they want to, but equally helps teach people to look at how the team classes are currently setup and what position is more suitable to occupy. Oh i cannot be the fourth spy, guess i will try another class -which may become that persons new favourite! :D

:5:
Author:  [SpA]ZEnergy [ 18 Oct 2011, 15:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Limit of 3 even on Engi's?
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 18 Oct 2011, 15:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
yep, apart from on CTF and TC maps where it is going to be a limit of 1.
I believe also that Degroot Keep has no limits or at least, default.
Author:  matude [ 18 Oct 2011, 16:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
[SpA]ProtectMyBalls wrote:
yep, apart from on CTF and TC maps where it is going to be a limit of 1.
Have we tried to set the limit to 2, to see if the actual limit ingame would then be 1? Or is the system broken in a way that any kind of engy limit makes it 0? Maybe it's "less than 1, one excluded". I think I saw a list somewhere that said the limits were 5 to all classes when ingame they were really 4 the all time?

Just a random thought, maybe I'm wrong but it's always been nagging me a bit.
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 18 Oct 2011, 16:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
It's all been fixed matude.

Tested 2fort with ditch last night, only one engy per team was permitted. All the classes were also set to 3 and we tried to max them out too.

But do let us know if you notice any problems with this.
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 21 Oct 2011, 14:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Limits seem to perform very well. :18
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 21 Oct 2011, 15:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
I've noticed you can still have 4 of a class on some maps :S
Can someone have a look at the plugin again please ? :D
Author:  annarack [ 22 Oct 2011, 10:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
The plugin still looks pretty :ugly:
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 22 Oct 2011, 12:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
[SpA]annarack wrote:
The plugin still looks pretty :ugly:
Oh... wait for it... ... ... ... but not as pretty as you! :26
Author:  ProtectMyBalls [ 22 Oct 2011, 14:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
[SpA]annarack wrote:
The plugin still looks pretty :ugly:
that's it, you get this face >>>> :roll: followed by this one :|

then this :x
Author:  [SpA]ZEnergy [ 22 Oct 2011, 14:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
How does it look pretty :?
Author:  annarack [ 22 Oct 2011, 17:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
I've checked through the class limits and tweaked a couple of things that were missed. If you find that the class limits is still not working could you post here what server it was or steam me.
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 22 Oct 2011, 17:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Balls just was drunk.
Author:  [SpA]JuncoPartner [ 22 Oct 2011, 22:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Class Limit Discussions
Ahh the new class limits are great :mrgreen: much easier to play with new players now.
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