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Scout update
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=4906		 Page 9 of 10
Author:  [SpA]futari [ 25 Feb 2009, 15:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Relentless wrote:
Quote:
I like the new update.. with goudvis as my medic and me as heavy we totally dominated granary 0_0
All those noob scouts just drop dead..
Just wait till cookye and me come onto the server :lol:
yeah true ;p
Just played another round of granary with goudvis.... came 2:0 ahead then I get autoteambalanced.. get the score to 2:3 and I get autobalanced again 0_0
And I died only two times.. what are the odds.. but our servers need good scouts O;

I saw the stun animation on dustbowl just now.. and it looks hilarious xD
Author:  MikeDH [ 25 Feb 2009, 16:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
Spy now plays as it's supposed to, had some kick ass rounds, ability to switch weapins is amazing, switched out as a scout shooting me, stopped with 7hp left, survival :D No longer captain obvious all the time, and i never QQ about missing backstabs, still the luck factor of getting caught but it's much easier to handle now. side stabs don't seem to work anymore. Or it might just be me.

scout weapons are, meh, FaN encourages better accuracy, although the "ascend rapidly" bollocks, it's a very small jump. Like the FaN more than scattergun, but not all the time.

bonk is useful in certain situations, used it to get behind enemy lines and cap the last point, ending the round quickly. It feels a little, under powered, it doesn't REALLY help that much, the speed increase isn't amazing (but neither is the slowdown as noticeable as i thought it'd be + you can defend yourself still).

Sandman is fun, but losing double jump is like losing my scout jump all together, can't deal with it :P

Used achievement manager to test them out, i'll leave milestone 1 on because i want the FaN, i'll wait for the rest.
Author:  Bartg [ 25 Feb 2009, 18:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
FaN is veeeeeeery weak, you have to put 3-4 point blank shots in snipers face to kill him, a demoman will probably take 6-8 shots :/ To bad, cause it has awesome sound&desing, but its way underpowered imho :| Bonk is awesome, I mean you ran into enemies, you see someone is getting ubered, you drink bonk and escape cause you are invincible to any damage. And sandman is best weapon from update for me, in 1 on 1 fight is far more usefull than double jump, hit someone from 10 meters and he is stunned long enough to hit him 3-4 times=he is dead ( even heavy ) :mrgreen: For me new scout loadout is Scattergun+Bonk+Sandman, maybe will exchange Bonk for pistol ;)
Author:  [SpA]SonnyBlack [ 25 Feb 2009, 18:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
FaN is weak? What FaN are u using. I pwn every demoman with 3-4 shots max. And I dont know if Sandman is too usefull, because u have to hit before stun, and hitting someone aint that easy.
Author:  Bartg [ 25 Feb 2009, 19:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
I have about 70% accuracy with Sandman :D I played few round with FaN and had trouble killing anyone with FaN - once i Bonk-ed myself, ran to red spawn at Fastlane, approached sniper from behind put 2 shots he turn around and had to make another 2 to kill him :|
And not on scout, but natasha is broken again, so you cant pwn scouts :(
Author:  MikeDH [ 25 Feb 2009, 19:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
FaN aint weak, i take down sniper 2 point blank body shots.

Tbh i seem to deal more damage in 2 quick blasts because rather than having 6 shots to waste, it's forcing me to take my shots more carefully!

I dnt think the "-20% dmg" is really needed.

Changed my mind about achievement milestone 1, removed achievement, gonna get my FaN the old fashioned farm hand way *chews some corn*

Since i actually like the FaN i'll earn it.

bonk is meh, sandman is fun but meh, but i'll earn them too

*chews more corn*
Author:  Bartg [ 25 Feb 2009, 20:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
Lets not forget the other nature of FaN - force jumps :D Poeple already are finding ridicolous uses of triple jump here http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... p?t=810878 , it seems you can for example jump from one balcony on 2fort to another without using bridge ;)
Author:  sebas [ 25 Feb 2009, 22:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]MikeDH wrote:
FaN aint weak, i take down sniper 2 point blank body shots.
Which is exactly what it takes you with scattergun. Except the latter has 6 rounds.

I still need to get my scout goodies and test them for myself so I'll come back with a more detailed opinion later on. :P
Author:  Crovax20 [ 26 Feb 2009, 00:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]sebas wrote:
[SpA]MikeDH wrote:
FaN aint weak, i take down sniper 2 point blank body shots.
Which is exactly what it takes you with scattergun. Except the latter has 6 rounds.

I still need to get my scout goodies and test them for myself so I'll come back with a more detailed opinion later on. :P
FaN is novelty item imho. You are at such a disadvantage at any fight that starts at range or no-suprise (full health). I am suprised valve reduced the damage of it, if anything it should do more damage then the normal scatter gun.
Author:  MikeDH [ 26 Feb 2009, 02:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Crovax20 wrote:
[SpA]sebas wrote:
Which is exactly what it takes you with scattergun. Except the latter has 6 rounds.

I still need to get my scout goodies and test them for myself so I'll come back with a more detailed opinion later on. :P
FaN is novelty item imho. You are at such a disadvantage at any fight that starts at range or no-suprise (full health). I am suprised valve reduced the damage of it, if anything it should do more damage then the normal scatter gun.
I agree with this statement. Why lower the damage when it's slower speed?

Oh and my unlocks are unlocked, now, thanks to achievement manager, i deleted the milestone achievements, but they're still there.

Unlocked the FAN legitimately, but it's not having it lol. It'll sort it selve out, maybe i'll get banned 8-)

Anyway, the Fan has a bug, it's not named properly ingame. Uses same icon for kills as scattergun, and it's not logging in the stats as seperate to scattergun... :O
Author:  Bartg [ 26 Feb 2009, 02:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
Yep and thats mainly why i dont like it - it has con of having only 2 shots, and yet deal almost exactly same damage as scatter. Blowback is nice, but I'm getting 10 time more kills with scater than fan :/ And Bonk is almost only defensive "Weapon", everytime i run on Bonk into enemy lines they track me and kill while im slowed down :<
Author:  MikeDH [ 26 Feb 2009, 02:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
Bartg wrote:
Yep and thats mainly why i dont like it - it has con of having only 2 shots, and yet deal almost exactly same damage as scatter. Blowback is nice, but I'm getting 10 time more kills with scater than fan :/ And Bonk is almost only defensive "Weapon", everytime i run on Bonk into enemy lines they track me and kill while im slowed down :<
i know, i see bonk, i lock on, i track, i kill.

I used it earlier to run through the front lines... got chased, blasted guy chasing me, got to last point, capped it soon as it came open.

So it can work.. Tbh i think it needs to be FASTER or longer...
Author:  [SpA]Baal Kagan [ 26 Feb 2009, 06:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Migu wrote:
Ehm wait...that's it? I thought they would announce a new game mode... :cry:
I'm shure I did read that somewhere.
Oh well, next time I guess then. :wink:
yeh...i kinda miss a "meet the" video, the new gamemode & the new PL map~

that the last point is only "release" is a lil bit lame xP

still pretty nice update ;D
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 26 Feb 2009, 08:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
Ever thought of using bonk to escape rather than push in? :|
Author:  [SpA]Cpt.Awesome [ 26 Feb 2009, 09:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Ever thought of using bonk to escape rather than push in? :|
yes but its still gay...
the only usefull weapon that came out with this update is the sandman its the freaking funniest weapon ever and with some practice damn nice(fuck the double jump).
but the other weapons have such big downsides that the arent usefull @ all.. the clipsize of the FaN is just terrible, you cant kill a medic point blank with the 2 shots you have(make the clipsize 4 and its deffo a good weapon) and the people who can kill more with it just have terrible aim because it has a bigger AoE(let the spam begin). and the slowdown takes forever + taking the drink should have been instant. you'll die before you can run away.
Author:  Crovax20 [ 26 Feb 2009, 09:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Cpt.Awesome wrote:
[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Ever thought of using bonk to escape rather than push in? :|
yes but its still gay...
the only usefull weapon that came out with this update is the sandman its the freaking funniest weapon ever and with some practice damn nice(fuck the double jump).
but the other weapons have such big downsides that the arent usefull @ all.. the clipsize of the FaN is just terrible, you cant kill a medic point blank with the 2 shots you have(make the clipsize 4 and its deffo a good weapon) and the people who can kill more with it just have terrible aim because it has a bigger AoE(let the spam begin). and the slowdown takes forever + taking the drink should have been instant. you'll die before you can run away.
if its instant, it would be a no-brainer over the pistol tbh. Oh shit I am almost dead, pop my invulnerability and run! Crit rocket coming my way, pop invul and run! It would make it to easy. Now you have at least have to try and get to a bit of cover/concealment and then get away.
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 26 Feb 2009, 11:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
I haven't played Scout yet, but from the other perspective: The FaN is horrible.

Scout approaches -> blows me up with the uberreach of the FaN -> approaches me while flying -> shoots in melee distance -> dead

The reach is ever bigger than the flamer distance. He can push a pyro back, before he can torch him.
Author:  Bartg [ 26 Feb 2009, 11:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
Play with FaN a bit and you'll see its not that brilliant. And yes Moose, Bonk i almost entirely for escaping not pushing forward, but I was trying other tactics using it and all failed ;] Only offensive tactic i see is pop Bonk, run past sentries on for example Junction and try capping point. And its fun to play even for a moment in TPP :mrgreen:
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 26 Feb 2009, 11:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
http://www.xfire.com/video/80657/
Author:  [SpA]Migu [ 26 Feb 2009, 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Blackhawk wrote:
http://www.xfire.com/video/80657/
:mrgreen: to those complaining about the new gun. :wink:
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 26 Feb 2009, 11:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
For DJ-whiners:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdCxUu_A ... re=channel[/youtube]
Author:  [SpA]SonnyBlack [ 26 Feb 2009, 13:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
I hope u noticed that he's still using his doublejump, would've been better, if he'd shown some jumps without using doublejump. Sure for some he does, but 50% of the time he uses doublejump also. :18
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 26 Feb 2009, 13:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]SonnY BlacK wrote:
I hope u noticed that he's still using his doublejump, would've been better, if he'd shown some jumps without using doublejump. Sure for some he does, but 50% of the time he uses doublejump also. :18
Hmm... that makes some sense. :mrgreen:

I should sleep more... ... ... :4
Author:  Crovax20 [ 26 Feb 2009, 18:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
fun jumps, but at the end of the day you will only have 1 shell to fire at someone else. And it won't give you that much of an advantage since its still only a shotgun.

The video, well sure i can record a demo where i kill people in 2 shots as well. Most were probably already hurt and you can reliably kill people who have under 125 hp.
Author:  [SpA]Cpt.Awesome [ 26 Feb 2009, 22:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
i take everything back... the FaN is sooooooooo freakin' nice <3 <3
Author:  Crovax20 [ 26 Feb 2009, 22:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Cpt.Awesome wrote:
i take everything back... the FaN is sooooooooo freakin' nice <3 <3
:) Its okay

I still reckon the scattergun is the better option though! FaN is a great weapon for finishing off hurt stuff and keeping those pyro's away!
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 26 Feb 2009, 23:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
I haven't used the FaN without the sandman yet, it will probably be pretty good with double jump. While playing soldier it seems pretty useless compared to the scatter gun, it's just easier to kill the scouts using it (I probably need to fight some decent ones, though, need to see you using it Mr.Awesome).
Author:  [SpA]Baal Kagan [ 27 Feb 2009, 07:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
[SpA]Cpt.Awesome wrote:
i take everything back... the FaN is sooooooooo freakin' nice <3 <3
indeed...indeed... <3
Author:  Crovax20 [ 02 Mar 2009, 09:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
I can smell a tweak coming to the sandman.

1st of all I never thought I wouldn't miss doublejump that much
2nd of all, scout has become rather imba with it

Everyone who goes play heavy/soldier will probably know what I am talking about. There is no fun in loosing total control of your character, and then getting raped by the scout and co. The scout doesn't even have to go kill you, the snipers sure as hell will.

So here is my suggestion for a more balanced sandman

The sandman will not make the scout loose his double jump
The sandman comes with 1 ball, which can only be replenished by picking the ball up again
Only when you respawn or pick up a ball, will you get a ball back
The sandman will have a 15% lower rate of fire than the bat. But do 15% more damage on a target that has been stunned.

In effect this would still mean the scout can stun keytargets during his life, but he has to take a risk to get his ball back. What happens right now, especially on attack/defense maps, is that at the last stage the scout can keep running into the supply room and get his ball back really fast, and go stun some other poor heavy/soldier (or any class if he has any decent aim). Anyhow I think my proposed change would probably mean a more balanced scout, offering him the choice of a stun but lower damage over time or the quick slapping of the normal bat.

Total loss of control is usually no fun for the player, people can live with blowbacks because after all is said and done you can still move, aim, fire. Total loss of control feels like you are cheated when you get killed. Although I do suppose snipers are quite happy with the scouts stunning everyone for them.
Author:  Bartg [ 02 Mar 2009, 12:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scout update
+1. But now ball dissapears after hitting someone, so they will have to make it stay after a hit. But I totally agree it should be 1 ball/1life, not "spawnable" in supply room. I dont think however they will bring double jump to sandman, it would made standard bat totally forgotten, just like Fireaxe. Now at least some scouts use standard bat to have double jump and be able to do achievements linked to double jump :P
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