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FAIL number 2
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=4965		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  MikeDH [ 26 Feb 2009, 17:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Thereisnocowlevel
Author:  [SpA]cookye [ 26 Feb 2009, 18:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
randomdrivel
Author:  Crovax20 [ 26 Feb 2009, 19:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
I don't care if someone cheats on the achievements or not.

I hate this trend that is appearing of feeding you little pieces. If I buy a racing game, I want to race and have all cars available to me at the start. This idea of building up your own carpark is no fun for me and thus I hardly ever buy racegames anymore.

I farmed one half of the achievements with someone who goes by the name of geweldig. All those achievements? I would already have half of those achievements a year ago but valve doesn't start tracking till now.

3rd part programs are just the top level of lazyness, but its fine with me. The weapons aren't that imba, and the game originally wasn't designed around a leveling system.
Author:  Murk [ 26 Feb 2009, 19:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
The only achievement I unlocked not-very-legally was "with friends like these".

Used achievement_unlock_all, but got the class ones reset.
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 26 Feb 2009, 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
To be honest, people farming the achievements in game harms the game a lot more than people just unlocking them out of game. A lot of the achievements are just downright pointless and don't make you deserve the weapon anymore than someone who used an application. (This was much more evident on the medic, heavy and pyro achievements, but my point still stands).

Some examples (Take into account that the scout ones are better than the older ones):

1) Destroy 3 teleporter entrances - A spy should be doing this if he can be bothered, it's not really an achievement to destroy a defenceless building 3 times
2) Kill a heavy then eat his sandvich - Most heavies don't use the sandvich, you might as well rename it to "Find Murk while he is injured"
3) Do 1000 double jumps - What the hell? Why should I?
4) Kill 4000000 enemies from behind with the FaN - Maybe if it was a viable weapon
5) Capture the intel 30 times in one game - Most people will not be able to do this without just going onto a empty/near to empty server, I challenge someone to do this on a 28 slot server.

I unlocked 13 achievement in-game (I wasn't helping the team in anyway, since the achievements which you can do without the new weapons are crap), then just got bored and unlocked 7 ridiculous ones with the application.

If you think that destroying 3 teleporter entrances is fun... :mrgreen:
Author:  Murk [ 26 Feb 2009, 21:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
2) Kill a heavy then eat his sandvich - Most heavies don't use the sandvich, you might as well rename it to "Find Murk while he is injured"
That sandvich has saved my skin more times than I care to mention. You should think about using yours more often.


And it once saved me from a spy trying to backstab me, but he failed.
He was stabbing and hardly doing anything, when a soldier came in and the spy ate steel.
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 26 Feb 2009, 21:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Murk wrote:
[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
2) Kill a heavy then eat his sandvich - Most heavies don't use the sandvich, you might as well rename it to "Find Murk while he is injured"
That sandvich has saved my skin more times than I care to mention. You should think about using yours more often.


And it once saved me from a spy trying to backstab me, but he failed.
He was stabbing and hardly doing anything, when a soldier came in and the spy ate steel.
:mrgreen:
Author:  MikeDH [ 27 Feb 2009, 08:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
[SpA]cookye wrote:
randomdrivel
What i said is a starcraft cheat, so anyone who played SC might get it and smile. Incase you were having a dig at me :roll:

Why can't we just agree that it's obviously cheating getting something you shouldn't have? But in this situation it hardly matters, it's so victimless, i don't understand all the Q_Q

Since achievements are so closely linked to weapons, it is NOT an issue for someone to have the weapons 24 hours earlier than someone who wants to do them all legit. Everyone will have the weapons within a couple weeks, how long before it became normal for pyros to carry backburners, and those that didn't got spy checked? Only newbies to the game don't have it. You all expect a medic to have kritzkreig and uber gun? It's part of the game, and within a few weeks it'll be wierd not seeing baseballs flying about.

Technically cheating, morally it isn't, he gains no advantage over you what-so-ever.
Author:  [SpA]Voegelchen [ 02 Mar 2009, 14:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
[SpA]MikeDH wrote:
[SpA]cookye wrote:
randomdrivel
Technically cheating, morally it isn't, he gains no advantage over you what-so-ever.
"Morally" it's even more pathetic that someone feels the need to cheat around such low requirements like the tf2 achievement system.
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 02 Mar 2009, 18:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
[SpA]Vögelchen wrote:
[SpA]MikeDH wrote:
Technically cheating, morally it isn't, he gains no advantage over you what-so-ever.
"Morally" it's even more pathetic that someone feels the need to cheat around such low requirements like the tf2 achievement system.
Well no, because people cheat because they want to remove the challenging part of the game, and the tf2 achievements aren't challenging, they are just tedious. I think 'cheating' is fine if it removes the tedious part (and doesn't effect other peoples gameplay), since games are for entertainment.
Author:  MikeDH [ 03 Mar 2009, 11:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
<<>> :4
Author:  smeghammer [ 03 Mar 2009, 12:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
I wud say that if you just played the game, you wouldn't need to farm or use some proggy to unlock.

I am guilty of just going on achievement maps, but only because i wanna unlock the new weps to have a play around with em, and usually to help my mates unlock theirs. Once i have those, the rest of the achieves i'll just get whilst playing. That doesn't affect me sleeping at night =]
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 03 Mar 2009, 16:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Yeah - I think the main point for me (personally) is that morality doesn't even come into play when it comes to the achievements, since like I explained from a third party's perspective it really doesn't matter how you got the unlockables. To me it's a personal choice based on whether you like the concept of achievements or not - I don't.
Author:  Marmot [ 03 Mar 2009, 16:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Quote:
To me it's a personal choice based on whether you like the concept of achievements or not - I don't.
Concept of achievements is nice, but it would be better if getting some achievements won't unlock any weapons. Nowadays, after every update it sucks to play on public servers, because people forget about team play and they are just farming for achievements. That's pretty annoying when you are in red team on maps like Egypt or Dustbowl, team consists in 8 players, from which 4 are scouts, 3 are pyros and there is 1 engineer or 1 demoman. I wouldn't call it teamplay, when team has no medics, and on defense-only you have bunch of scouts, which are better for attacking purposes than defending... Of course everybody can play scout on defense, if someone know how to play, but these scouts in most cases doesn't do anything another than running in front of enemy and dying.
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 03 Mar 2009, 16:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Marmot wrote:
Concept of achievements is nice, but it would be better if getting some achievements won't unlock any weapons. Nowadays, after every update it sucks to play on public servers, because people forget about team play and they are just farming for achievements.
Dunno if this would be a realy difference... if you get the new weapons just instantly, the players would still play the new classes to try them and/or class specific changes out. The real farmers go to achievement maps.
Author:  Marmot [ 03 Mar 2009, 16:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
[SpA]Blackhawk wrote:
Marmot wrote:
Concept of achievements is nice, but it would be better if getting some achievements won't unlock any weapons. Nowadays, after every update it sucks to play on public servers, because people forget about team play and they are just farming for achievements.
Dunno if this would be a realy difference... if you get the new weapons just instantly, the players would still play the new classes to try them and/or class specific changes out. The real farmers go to achievement maps.
But it wouldn't look like it's now. Everybody can play new class to try new things (for example I did like this many times, because why not to try?), but that sucks, when people are doing everything on servers to get achievments (playing scout without brakes, because they want 2004 kills, 1000 doublejumps, and to run 25000 kilometers). It would be more like it's in Day Of Defeat, where people gets achievments while normal playing, without farming, because they don't have anything after getting these achievments than a higher number of unlocked achievs in stats.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 03 Mar 2009, 17:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Yeah - ironically I think that unlocking the weapons "MMORPG" style would be preferable in my case. I mean - take the unlock system in BF2 - you gain experience by simply playing the game - good players gain it faster but bad players will still get there eventually. Of course I wouldn't make the process as lengthy and tedious but in my opinion this would be the best way if weapons are to be unlocked, instead of given out.
Ah, of course gaining experience would be unrelated to the class you're playing. =)
Author:  Bartg [ 03 Mar 2009, 18:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Yep that the good way, but I think xp/ranks system doesnt fit into TF2.
Author:  smeghammer [ 03 Mar 2009, 19:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
Completely off topic, but i only just noticed the steam status things under everyone's posts. Did they appear today?

I love it, they're awesome...how did u do that?
Author:  [SpA]demm [ 03 Mar 2009, 19:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
I implemented them today.

Next week I will write a guide for our homepage where you can see how this is done and how you could use it on your own homepage.
Author:  Timmeh~ [ 03 Mar 2009, 23:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: FAIL number 2
[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Well no, because people cheat because they want to remove the challenging part of the game, and the tf2 achievements aren't challenging, they are just tedious. I think 'cheating' is fine if it removes the tedious part (and doesn't effect other peoples gameplay), since games are for entertainment.
I think that's something personal though. I quite like the achievements, well most of them. A lot of them are based on either luck or even extreme luck, but the majority is doable on public servers in regular matches.
A good example are the Pyro-achievements, it contains a few achievements that are rather silly (kill someone with a taunt in a public match is something I quite fail to do and to me seems rather impossible) but the amount to get the third milestone is really doable. But when I look at the Scout achievements I get the feeling they are really difficult to get, or at least take a very long time and thus become tedious.

The thing to the TF2 unlockables is that they are more of an extra feature instead of an obligatory thing. If they would have introduced a sort of levelling system which increases stats and gives better weaponry it would have really demotivated new players (since they prolly will get slaughtered). But if they did the levelling system with just the weapons you have now as a reward, it would be WAY to unrewarding for the players ("I got level 10 after all this time and all I got was this weapon that has this cool feature but takes away a feature I had")

All in all, like I said I think it's a personal thing. And considering TF2 is a pretty casual Online-FPS, this system fits the overall game better :)
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