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Stats!
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=6112		 Page 2 of 4
Author:  Murk [ 09 Aug 2009, 14:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Image
Author:  [SpA]futari [ 09 Aug 2009, 14:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Murk goes Kira~

I love it how people can be so obsessed with stats, like me in the long ago o:
Saint breaking stuff through a telepathic link? Fuck yeah!
Author:  Murk [ 09 Aug 2009, 14:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
[SpA]futari wrote:
Murk goes Kira~

I love it how people can be so obsessed with stats, like me in the long ago o:
Saint breaking stuff through a telepathic link? Fuck yeah!
Can't you see what I mean?!

It's a coverup! It was all part of the plan, along with his disappearance!

What do you think K stands for in SaintK?! HUH?! DO YOU SEE WHERE I AM GETTING AT!
Author:  Dark [ 09 Aug 2009, 14:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Not like I ever cared about stats but this is quite lulz
:4
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 09 Aug 2009, 16:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Same has happened to everyone on the stats ;)
Author:  TheGreatEmu [ 09 Aug 2009, 19:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Could someone disable them until its fixed?
Author:  Bartg [ 09 Aug 2009, 19:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
[DD] TheGreatEmu wrote:
Could someone disable them until its fixed?
I found a tshirt for you :ugly:
Image
Author:  [SpA]Repel [ 09 Aug 2009, 20:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Bartg wrote:
[DD] TheGreatEmu wrote:
Could someone disable them until its fixed?
I found a tshirt for you :ugly:
Image
I have a feeling that you should also be wearing that shirt. :roll:
Author:  Bartg [ 09 Aug 2009, 20:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
That actually is my shirt.
Author:  sebas [ 09 Aug 2009, 21:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
dude, you have manboobs
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 10 Aug 2009, 00:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
They are very well sculpted man boobs.
Author:  [SpA]moPP [ 10 Aug 2009, 02:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
I don't get it why people start yelling statwhore as soon as someone are even remotely interested in stats.
Why is it such a bad thing? :p

Stats in any form is fun, and alot of people enjoy it. But one would think it's taboo to enjoy it from the reactions on this forum.
Author:  [SpA]Nutty82uk [ 10 Aug 2009, 11:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Sports have stats: Top goalscorer, best defence etc etc, It's for fun, it's a challenge, it's interesting, it's numbers. Some people with OCD can't get enough of numbers and stats. It does not mean you are better than other people, it just means you had a good game/have too much time to spare playing or whatever. Bottom line is, if you like them look at them, if you don't then don't and don't pissing moan about the people that do, in the end it's the people that take the time to moan about looking at stats and saying that they don't like them that people get pissed off with the most....i.e. now :roll:
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 10 Aug 2009, 11:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Tru dat.
Author:  Crovax20 [ 10 Aug 2009, 11:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
[SpA]Nutty82uk wrote:
Sports have stats: Top goalscorer, best defence etc etc, It's for fun, it's a challenge, it's interesting, it's numbers. Some people with OCD can't get enough of numbers and stats. It does not mean you are better than other people, it just means you had a good game/have too much time to spare playing or whatever. Bottom line is, if you like them look at them, if you don't then don't and don't pissing moan about the people that do, in the end it's the people that take the time to moan about looking at stats and saying that they don't like them that people get pissed off with the most....i.e. now :roll:
But what if I don't wanted to be listed on the stats? Did I have a choice?
What if the stat tracking system really is misrepresenting? There is a reason why we see so many medics/demo/soldiers in the top 30. Those players aren't really better, they just play classes that make more kills overall.
What if the stat tracking system is really buggy, and yes it is.
Also, with sport stats, they usually keep stats on a finite population of a couple of hunders or thousands registered clubs/people/whatever. With our servers you got a near infinite population who basically trash the whole system.

Stats are fine if they would actually represent something, but our stats don't really do much but make sure SpA-points keeps working


Image
Author:  Dark [ 10 Aug 2009, 12:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
I think that's the main beef people have with stats yes, they don't depend on how you play, but on who you play against. You can have a 3:1 k/d ratio and still loose stats because everyone else on the server has 5000 less points than you.

But at the end of the day, I agree that it's better not to care about it at all than to whine about it/people who like it. When I see moosey on the opposite team, I know I'm in a world of trouble, not because he's #1, but because he makes my ass look like a sticky-magnet :rage:
Author:  [SpA]Spikespiegel [ 10 Aug 2009, 12:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
My skill went down 2k in one day, where I had around 3:1 in KPD ratio :S
Author:  Bartg [ 10 Aug 2009, 14:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Agree with Crovax, stats are fine if they are working properly - in this form stats are only usefull to see how much kills you have with each weapon :ugly:
Author:  [SpA]moPP [ 10 Aug 2009, 15:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
stats != skill
There's so much more on those pages than the skill counter.
Author:  Crovax20 [ 10 Aug 2009, 15:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
remove the skill counter and the main ranking page then :twisted:
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 10 Aug 2009, 16:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
So what would it rank you by? I don't care about the skill rating since it sucks balls, I got a 6 to 1 kpd with 130 kills and I lost 800 skill, so that proves to me that it's useless since I wasn't playing against total idiots :?

I'm not actually arguing here, would it rank you by the skill rating but not show it? Or would you just not have a rank but keep the stats for the spa points and if you want to see you're statistics for classes etc...
Author:  [SpA]moPP [ 10 Aug 2009, 18:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
There's so much focus on skillpoints :roll: or maybe it's just a weak 'troll' attempt again from Crovax' side.


However, the skill point system have been discussed too many times already.
What I think would be a nice way to measure the so-called skill, or just to get a ranking system, would be to utilize the point system already in the game.
The ingame point system is somewhat balanced and different for each class, and it's a pointer to how useful you are during a map.


The formula would be something like: (total ingame points / total time played [in minutes])*1000,
which would make the skill look like:

(200 points / 60 minutes played) * 1000 = ~3333 skill
(50 points / 137 minutes played) * 1000 = ~464 skill
(1400 points / 780 minutes played) * 1000 = ~1795 skill

For me this would be the best indicator of how good you are, or rather how useful you are as a teammate.
The "best" part about it is that you dying doesn't affect the outcome of the number, like it does now (e.g losing 10 points just because you get killed by a low ranked player, and you have to kill him 10 times to make up for it.)

And instead of calling it skill we could call it... usefullnesspointsfortheteam!
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 10 Aug 2009, 19:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Or we could no ranks! I would prefer that :u

Seeing as I think we can safely say that no ranking system will be a fair way of deciding how good someone is unless it is amazingly complicated and not driven by a simple formula (because of how being skillful at TF2 is not like being skillful at chess). Just have the stats so that people can see what they want to see about themselves, class/map specific stats.

Points are flawed as well because some people join with friends where one medics and the other goes demo/soldier/heavy, giving both a massive advantage (normally easily seen by 2 people having points way above their team, sometimes it's just coincidence, but not always). You could say that the medics will tag onto the more skillful players, hence being more use to the team, but this is not always true. This is a general flaw in any stats of a game built like TF2 (the current stats suffer from this as well), with separate classes with different abilities. Hence, if you have someone who is very skillful, but hardly gets a medic, they could get less points than someone who is average skill, but is getting all the ubers, kritzkrieg and constant overheal.
Author:  DrMcMoist [ 10 Aug 2009, 20:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
[SpA]Crovax20 wrote:
[SpA]Nutty82uk wrote:
Sports have stats: Top goalscorer, best defence etc etc, It's for fun, it's a challenge, it's interesting, it's numbers. Some people with OCD can't get enough of numbers and stats. It does not mean you are better than other people, it just means you had a good game/have too much time to spare playing or whatever. Bottom line is, if you like them look at them, if you don't then don't and don't pissing moan about the people that do, in the end it's the people that take the time to moan about looking at stats and saying that they don't like them that people get pissed off with the most....i.e. now :roll:
But what if I don't wanted to be listed on the stats? Did I have a choice?
What if the stat tracking system really is misrepresenting? There is a reason why we see so many medics/demo/soldiers in the top 30. Those players aren't really better, they just play classes that make more kills overall.
What if the stat tracking system is really buggy, and yes it is.
Also, with sport stats, they usually keep stats on a finite population of a couple of hunders or thousands registered clubs/people/whatever. With our servers you got a near infinite population who basically trash the whole system.

Stats are fine if they would actually represent something, but our stats don't really do much but make sure SpA-points keeps working


Image
Jesus H. Fucking Christ.........


.....I'm actually agreeing with Crovax.


*Goes off to kill self*
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 10 Aug 2009, 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
That's why I say I would rather not have a ranking, or maybe rank it by something silly like play time and remove the skill calculation. Then people can see the things that they supposedly want to see, and don't have to worry about the bugs in 'skill' calculation ;) Then you could also make it so people can make their stats page private since there wouldn't be a ranking, and hence no gaps in it :u
Author:  sebas [ 10 Aug 2009, 22:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
I love stats, I really do (it must have something to do with my D&D nerdiness). The ranking however is bogus and everybody knows it.

I really like Minimoose's ideea about ranking based on online time. Then if anybody cares about ranking their only choice is to play more on our servers => awesome.
Author:  Crovax20 [ 10 Aug 2009, 22:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
[SpA]moPP wrote:
There's so much focus on skillpoints :roll: or maybe it's just a weak 'troll' attempt again from Crovax' side.

Image

No actually I wasn't trolling. Just pointing out that I would prefer stats without this whole rank/skill system which is flawed.

I like checking my k/d ratio for classes. I like checking what weapon I use a lot. What I don't like is that the topranking pretty much exists out of people who are almost always playing medic/demo/soldier.

I mean, what use is that? I rather be able to check my own statistics, to see who I get killed by a lot, who I kill alot, where I get killed from, how many deaths have been by crits etc. Most of this is already possible, I just hate this artificial flawed number we plunk on someone.
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 11 Aug 2009, 00:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
Exactly, so use my idea, remove the skill calculation and just use time played, it means people won't have to care about ranking if they don't want to, but they will still have stats :p
Author:  [SpA]moPP [ 11 Aug 2009, 15:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
If you look at what I suggested without the "personal skill system" mindset, and rather look at it from what Team Fortess 2 is about; teamplay.

What I suggested would indicate more of how valuable you are as a teammate rather than how good you are on a personal basis (where k:d plays a big part). Those two
often go hand-in-hand, but not in the same way it's calculated now. The above formula would indicate team usefulness rather than "skill".

Mr. Minimoose;
I don't see what's wrong with the examples you used. If two friends do join as medic/soldier etc, why shouldn't they have an advantage? They are more valuable to the team,
as they can often coordinate better etc, which would result in a better "skill" for a lack of a better word. It should be Team effort points! I don't see a problem with that really.


A personal skill system doesn't belong in a teamplay based game at all, really. But stats do, and I think ranking does as well, but not the way it's done atm cause that's no indication of anything.
Author:  Crovax20 [ 11 Aug 2009, 16:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Stats!
But, a spy who stabs that heavy/medic combo who are just about to ubercharge and then dies is more valuable than the demo who just splattered another scout.
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