That's why the spy would get 4 points and the demo get 1 point in that particular scenario.

Afaik it depends on what weapon the demo used, but I think Frosty knows more about that

Making a kill with stickybomb launcher should give you -15000 skill, slay and a 3 week ban.

Also an arrest warrant

My point was that the person being healed all the time is only more valuable than the person not being healed because he is being healed. The medic would be of more use healing the amazing person, so actually in fact they aren't being as useful to the team. It also means a lot of the time the medic ignores people who are dying but thats a different topic altogether.

Personal skill of course has a place in a team game, just because you have to work as a team does not mean that personal skill is completely wiped out of ranking. Personal skill lets you be more use to the team, but often only if your team lets you (such as healing you, even though you have the potential to be very useful, your team might not be helping you to reach your potential). That is exactly why a ranking system in a heavily team based game is flawed, since you have to rely on your team so much this links to my next point very well:

Another thing that bugs me is that people are so selfish when it comes to team switching, I don't know if this has anything to do with ranking, but I think it might have something to do with it. So surely joining the losing team should effect your skill as well? A very skillful player can be on the losing team and get hardly any points just because they are getting rolled so much, he might have triple the points of the next person on his team but then compared to players on the winning team he might be on par with someone who is just getting points from doing a few easy headshots. Hence he is the most useful to his team, and if he left his team would most likely collapse, but in the point ranking system he is hardly rewarded.

I'm just saying that any ranking system has massive flaws in TF2 and so we should just not have a ranking which is determined in a way that will make people be selfish.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

yet the spy will die more often thus fucking him again.

Skillrating is bullshit. Just remove it and give everyone a personal stat page

Hey but you know what? It won't happen, because we only have so many people who can code and they got better things to do then go change the rankingpages.

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

That's exactly why he's more valuable, since he's being healed and playing good as a team paired up with a medic.
I don't see why that is a bad thing :p Why shouldn't they be "rewarded" for it, where rewarded = more skill points. If the healed person isn't any good, the
medic will find someone else. Bad people don't turn good just because they're getting heals.

It's not a perfect system by far, but in my biased head it's a better solution that what's already in play. The point system in tf2 is pretty much balanced as it is.
Dying wouldn't affect anything with a different approach to how the numbers are calculated.

That is not true, two people of the same skill, one getting healed constantly and the over not getting healed, who will have more points? I think it is obvious.

You didn't read my post anyway, I'm pretty sure I didn't say the person getting healed was bad, i just said the guy who wasnt getting healed was better. If two friends join the server one goes medic then he will normally heal his friend as a buddy.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Yeah well... there is a reason why one gets healed and the other doesn't.
Call it "people skills" or whatever you want, but this is part of a team game. You need to find a way to get along with your teammates.
The medic won't randomly choose who he heals. He will always try to heal the one that gets him the mosts assists and the least deaths.
So if one of the players is able to "attract" a medic and the other isn't, I think it's still fair that the one with the medic gets more points.

I usually just try to keep everyone near me overhealed.

I'm socially dead and now I'm depressed.

No, when 2 friends join a server, a lot of the time one goes medic and the other goes an offensive class. They will usually be pairing up, the medic won't go and heal the awesome person and leave his friend without a medic, it will be the other way round, so you can't always say the most skilled players will get medics, since it's only sometimes true.

It's not as simple as your one reason, which is what i have been trying to explain but no one reads it properly, unless I'm making it very unclear.

Also with the proposed point system someone could play on our server for an hour and have a very lucky hour getting loads of points and be rank 1 if he never came on again, since the formula is so simple and only takes 2 variables into account.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

lol you make it sound like they are going to mate awwwww

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

nice avatar balls

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Yeah need to redo it with a higher res picture as i did it real quick last night, it was kinda funny cause after a while all the SpA people had left the server and I quickly realised that i was at the wheel for the first time lol (quickly alt-tabbed out and set up that bind key) its now on my Big B button on my wolfking keyboard... which i guess stands for 'bring it'... unfortunately everyone was well behaved... apart from the mass murder etc.

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Have the stats been put on hold? certain bits of data are no longer updating, im sure i killed bam like 3 or 4 times last night but he is still at 201?

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

Well I see your last game is 11.08, and afair Sonny said on server that stats are currently off.

lol cool good to know, my rank hasnt changed at all. good news for BAM thou, can kill him all i want now

did he say why they are down?

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

Well considering discussion going on in this topic stats werent calculating skill properly.

We were having massive performance issues last few days mostly caused by the stats.

Yesterday we did alot of work on the server and hope to have most of it resolved.

Stats tracker is now launched again.

good news

or is bad news?

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Just to add to this, a lot of the time I don't get medics because they're paired up with people they know or are ranked higher.. or, before this week, had a tag infront of their name. Some medics wont heal me because of my playing style (which honestly I get but they know me) and then there's that big section of morons that only heal one person all map or more annoyingly run around constantly with another medic. Perversly I now find it hard to play with a medic as I'm so used to running around on my own and at one point rebound the E key to draw the axtinguisher and didnt bother binding a key for the medic.

Does my not having a medic mean I'm less valuable to the team? I take down a lot of sentries without ubers, I chase down heavy-medic pairs, stand in the way of attacks for BONK!'d players, deflect shots at sentries and put out my team mates who are on fire (Sometimes I even go so far as to spy check). I dont think I'm a bad player, judging by my stats and rank I'd go so far to say I'm quite a good pyro. However I have a huge problem in getting healed by medics.

Dont get me wrong there are some great medics who play on this server, yet of all the classes medics are often the biggest points whores which makes them the worst team players. There are also some players whom I very, very rarely see without a medic too. It'd be interesting to see if they play as well as they do if you remove the life support (though thats more curiosity than complaint).
I also agree with Minimoose here, bad people may not get better. Good players however are much more effective with a medic.

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Im probably one of the people you see with a medic all the time, I normally tell my medics to heal other people if I'm not playing a class which can actually be useful, but sometimes they just won't leave me alone (im not complaining ). The problem with healing pyros is that they have to get close to their enemies to kill them, putting the medic in more danger, since they can do lots of damage with a soldier/heavy/demoman then they are much more likely to heal these classes. When I'm medic I normally just overheal everyone I see and don't care about points, since you get so many as medic anyway, you might as well have 10 less points to save 10 teammates.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

OMG HE NOT HEALING ME! !BAN PLZ!

Let people have their fun. Laissez Faire.

You basically got two options in my opinion. Try and motivate the person to heal you and others through the microphone. Slapstick style is best used here.

Or just be on the edge and rape everyone without a medic

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

The point was that this was a flaw in any stat system of TF2, not whining about medics, seeing as I get a lot of it anyway.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Well... I think my point is still valid.
If you can motivate a medic to heal you, you deserve to get more points than somebody who can't.

For example, Johnny and me always have medics when we play heavy. That's simply because we know how to take care of the medic but also know how to kill people.
So any medic with a brain would preferably heal someone who protects them, instead some pyro that runs off and leaves him to die.

A lot of the time it isn't motivation though, it's just having a friend who heals you all the time, which is fair enough in gameplay terms, but it doesn't make you a better player in terms of skill. Hence messing up any TF2 ranking system.

Just because I can sweet talk medics into healing me, doesn't mean I'm a better player, it just means I'm good at sweet talking. I get medics probably more than anyone on the server, but I don't go on with someone else with the intent for them to heal me, and I'm still not deceiving myself that I have high stats just due to how good I am at the game, it's also due to the medics I get.

Also pyro's are normally only given ubercharges rather than being a medic buddy, where as heavy, soldier and demoman are excellent medic buddies and are therefore more likely to get a medic to help them.

By the way, I'm not arguing that people don't get medics because they are good, because obviously they do, my point was that the difference between two players of the same skill, one with a medic and one without a medic is huge (so stats are flawed in this way, since due to an outside source which is is not taken into account in the stats, one player is given a huge advantage). As a heavy, you would not be anywhere near as useful without a medic. My other point was that medics won't always go with the most skilled player, due to having friends on the server (so your argument about the most skilled players getting medics is not always true). My examples use two players of the same skill with the same class by the way, comparing a pyro to a soldier/heavy/demo is just silly unless the pyro is intelligent with the blowback.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

EXACTLY!!!

I like to heal everyone who is low on life. I like to think I am a very aware Medic. If I am healing a "good" heavy in battle for example I will always keep him alive but take the time to heal everyone around me I can to keep them alive, esp. if they are burning. Healing different people has the benefit of charging Uber faster as well. I like to think I am a good medic and cannot even be arsed to listen to moaners, one minute there are not enough medic's on a team, the next the medic is shit because while trying to heal the whole team by themselves they accidental let someone die from burning, and then the next they are stat whore's. I mean fuck me, a) it's a frigging game and b) all the bloody moaning....get layed!!

....general morning rant, but hey..it's nearly the weekend

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You'll Feel A Little Prick

Well... for me sweet talking (=communication) is part of the game and therefore should be part of your "skill" ranking. "Skill" doesn't just mean hand-eye-coordination for me.
But I suppose that's just a different point of view.

Also, it's not that it's always friends or SpA members healing me for example. There are often just some random medics that quickly realize that they're better off healing me than someone else.