Also keep in mind that engineer is on average the class with the most noobs playing it.
I'd like to think that the skill level and the quality of the games on our servers are pretty high compared to other public servers. So if we loose one or two noobs that only play engi, I have to say that's a good thing.

Yeah, brilliant argument there. The engineers never push, which is what is needed on a ctf map, the only time they move is so they can camp at middle. You can't give me the 'they can be support by setting up teleporters' because the map is small enough for someone to walk to the middle in no time. Pretty much it makes the map too easy to camp and pull to a standstill (When you're are attacking or defending, it doesn't matter). You have no argument against this so you just go off the point to try and make my point look invalid. It's not working and you aren't always right.

My post before that last one explains the tactics better of why engineers mess up turbine so much, so go read it then do a sensible reply.

...its stupid that when those maps got put back in the engi limit immediately has gone to 0. It should have been 2 at first and then perhaps if still justified to 1...

But whats wrong with 0 engis at ctf + hydro ? I mean hydro still ends in a sudden death most of the rounds, so 0 or 8 engis there doesnt make much difference, but number of people complaining about 0 engis is almost none, and if someone is complaining he is usually newcomer to the server. I understand the idea of "engi is part of the game", but standard ctf maps can be defended with 1 sentry, and on public server 1 sentry can sometimes stop your team for a long time.

- removed pipeline from the mapcycle (now classed as tryout map for new gamemode, will await better map with decent layout/setup)

I would rather play dustbowl than pipeline.