As a huge fan of STALKER, arguably the main influence on this game, the game most definitely is for me. It just needs some design ideals that were not penned by giggling 6 year olds. I still hold out hope it will get there. Just not much is all...

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

This game needs a-hole pvp bandits otherwise, where is the fear and challenge? Zombies are not intelligent, they are powered purely by the need to consume so you need human players to actually make you feel fear and not just act as an obstacle. It's realistic to what would happen during a zombie apocalypse as when all lawlessness is out the window, some will preserve humanity, others will go for the quickest solution lead by fear; law of the jungle. If you are a real zombie fan and you actually read your zombie/apocalypse literature and films then this theme is obvious; same with losing everything when you die, making your bones and blood fragile, it makes you respect your life and feel you need to protect it, sometimes at any cost; i.e. your humanity. If you like watching/reading The Walking Dead, or love the Romero movies, or survival films and TV in general, you will know, that it's the human factor that always leads to the most conflict and tension. A human being will do anything for self preservation when pushed. Some people like myself will spend hours searching non coastal towns safely and avoiding confrontation where possible; but the game is realistic and you never know what is going to be thrown at you or come your way; it's how you react that defines you as a player.

To quote TWD;

"The world we know is gone, but keeping our humanity? That's a choice."

"You can't just be the good guy and expect to live. Not anymore."

Rocket clearly has the right ethos for how the apocalypse will go down, I love the fact it has pretty much no balance, it's like pot luck, roll of the dice, the same way life (irl) deals cards. It's very much like the film battle royale; someone gets an AK, the other gets a pot lid, sucks-to-be-you-basically; if someone feels everyone should start out with big guns then you are going to be shocked if the end of days does happen. You need good map reading skills, eye sight, noise discipline, movement discipline, weapon discipline, communication and inventory management in order to survive. I'm so glad he plan's to make it harder and and really test the player's emotions.

This game really isn't for everyone though, if you appreciate games as just an entertainment product then it wont be for you. If you like immersion, tension and a good dash of the chaos theory then you will devour this mod, and become addicted. If you want to see what sort of person you would become, what decisions and actions you would make, and how long you could last in a world with no laws, no rules and everything to lose; then this simulation has been made with you in mind (just appreciate the fact its alpha (not even alpha it's at a capacity testing level), it's buggy, and the things he is doing technically to achieve the scale of the mod is very unorthodox but with time those kinks will hopefully be addressed), he must be applauded for trying new things (practically by himself too), taking risks and doing what all good game designers should be doing nowadays, pushing the boundaries.) He has done such an amazing job at making a game that evokes and creates so much emotion from the audience and that it effects you in a realistic way; I'll remember all my kills and the situations I've been in more than any kill streak of melee kill I've done in any other FPS. If you aren't able to appreciate immersion and emotional interaction, it's not the game for you and you should stick to more casual games that give and take very little - and that is perfectly fine. This game wasn't made with that type of player in mind. If you want to just casually kill zombies for 20mins then you have l4d, Killing Floor and Dead Island, which is fine too - but that isn't the realistic experience.

I applaud Rocket's efforts, he made a game for himself that is challenging and people are spending £25 just to experience his vision, it's not for everyone, and the industry needs more designers like him in my opinion. Similar to the Rocksteady ethos, devs should be making games they want to play and enjoy playing, and not trying to satisfy the majority of the public (who don't know what they want) or a publisher who is too scared to take chances. I've played 66 hours so far, had about 8 lives, two of which were 20 hours long (killed by lag) and I've been on the edge of my seat every minute of it.

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.

I agree that bandits and PVP are a fun part of the game but they need controls. Your entertainment should never come at the cost of the entertainment of others. Applying rules and regulations to how bandits can operate would be incredibly simple.
As to saying that this is some deep, meaningful game where man is pitted against his demons to see how far he would reach, you are delusional. Its a game where guys who know the map and have the biggest gun can rape the living shit out of the new guys - nothing more. The potential for it to exceed its mandate is prolific but right now this is "Spawn Grief - The Game". Trying to argue it is some crystalline window onto the soul of our humanity is hubris and laughable.
Have to disagree. Rocket clearly only has a firm grasp of schlock, amateurish fiction like the zombie-pap you named in your first paragraph. Giving me BS like "this is how the apocalypse would be" just shows the screaming level of naïveté in the audience.
Whoa whoa whoa - easy tiger. Talk about reading WAY too much into a simple premise. This is a first person shooter, no different in its levels of realism and immersion than CoD or Unreal Tournament. The setting is far from realistic, the setup is stunningly basic and the physicality of the world, from ballistics modelling to player movement, are down right hideous and unrealistic in the extreme. To argue that this is realistic is just daft - there is no realism here - none at all. The more realistic something is the more rules it needs to define it. Spouting words like Chaos Theory does not help your argument as it has precisely zero relevance here.
I've played more than my share of sims, dedicating entire years to hardcore, realistic shooters like Raven Shield, SWAT and Ghost Recon. Trying to say that the reason people don't get this game is because its too tough and "real" is madness. You, as with most modern gamers, need to learn that there is little correlation between difficulty and realism.
His vision? This is STALKER, plain and simple. That is no bad thing, but lets not turn Rocket into some messianic cult leader just yet, ok? Sure he invented something popular but anyone who did not see there was a niche for this sort of game ready waiting has no understand of the current PC Zeitgeist. All of us have craved open world shooters so it is obvious that this would come along. I am not saying we should not be thankful to him for actually putting this into motion but lets keep the sacrificing of the first born for later, ok?

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

I find this aspect of the game as one of the most interesting features. When i heard about it, i immediatly knew how i was going to play it. I would play it like it was me this was happening to and how would i react in real life. So a survivor i was born to be. I made the concious decision that i wouldnt be killing anyone. i started playing and had the few deaths that i think it takes for you to learn what the game is all about. I teamed up with RL friends i have playing it and met knew people. I never killed anyone... only worked with other players, killed zombies and hunted for supplies.

At one point i was doing particularly well. I'd been alive for several hours, had managed to get myself all the important equipment to make myself self sufficiant (compass, map, knife, matches etc) along with the firepower. My player had become 'valuable'.... i was walking through a small town on route to the north to meet with a friend, when suddenly i heard the chilling scream of a startled zombie. I turned to see it running towards me and let of my revolver shots. Another 2 nearby zeds were attracted which ran toward me. I managed to kill them both, but not before taking a hit from one of them. I started to bleed and it was at this point i realised i had used my last bandage already. It was the first time i realised how fast your bleed runs out! i started running around frantically, checking all the nearby houses. No bandages. The colour started to disappear from my screen as the effects of blood loss took hold. I ran to another house.... nothing. My character felt to the floor for asplit second as the blood loss caused me to faint. I managed to get back onto my feet and head back out onto the street. Then i saw him.... a lone survivor, shuffling by the fence infront of me on his way to god knows where. i started typing for help, but mid type, i looked into the top right and saw the blood meter.... 900... i had seconds to live... so i stopped typing mid sentance, switched weapons and shot the survivor without hesitation.
i went over to his body, and without any form of emotion, frantically looted the two bandages on his body. i patched myself up and stopped the bleeding. i managed to crawl back into the house and slump into the corner.

it was only then that i realised what had just happened. in the space of about 2 minutes i had experienced an absolutle rollercoaster of emotions. Anger at myself for being hit by the zombie, fear of dying, panic as i searched the houses... the only thing i had remained emotionless about was when i shot the other survivor. it was then that i realised what had just happened. i killed another player! the guild and sadness at what i had just done suddenly swamped over me. i had just thrown all my plans and principles for how i was playing the game out the window and i hadnt even thought about it cus i didnt want to die. I had just experienced a moment of gaming i will never forget... and anything that does that is pretty special. its also something i havent experienced so intesnley in gaming for a while. I believe the whole experience was hightened by the massive consequence (in my mind) i had placed on dying.

I actually now have a few 'day z moments' that will stick with me and ive only been playing the game for 2 weeks.

Like i said to someone the other day, its great seeing youself play out things that you've seen in hundreds of zombie movies before and thought 'LOL...as if youd EVER do that in a zombie apocolypse!'....only to do it yourself in Dayz

ill keep playing until these moments become stale. it hasnt happened yet though

P.S. Howard - enjoyed your last post. Thanks for the debate and being so open in your response.

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"What are you guys talking about?"
ZombieStalin: ... God... and Porn....
"NIIIIICEEEEEE"

I feel your passion and I know exactly how "glued to the screen" you will have been for that experience. It was fast and powerful and visceral and it hit you in very real, physical terms. I can see the appeal.

Now let me give you the counter.

You shot some poor dude who would have helped you just for the asking and ruined "X" amount of in game time, destroying his illusion, sending him back to that queue followed by that beach, alone and unarmed, his adventure ended, his experience ruined.

His day was over. There is a reasonable chance he never played again.

Discuss.


(As an aside to this, if only the damage system and zombie lag were fixed, adding the realism the game claims it has, I would be happy. You 2 argue that you would "do what you had to, to survive" and you are damned right! If you think that a zombie - 10 zombies - would stop me you are delusional. That is why I cannot find the immersion. My character is a wimp, a pussy who cries with fear whenever this utterly non-threatening, shambling burk gets near. Zombies are just not scary and, save for the stereotypical ones that "infect" you, offer no threat. I should be able to swat them aside with the contempt they deserve.)

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

I think is this a cruel but nessesary evil. Death can happen so quick after hours of work bordering on tedious, and you might not even get a chance to retaliate or even realise what's happening. Yet I continue to walk away from the coast and start again. I'd really like that to not happen but I couldn't think of a way to soften that without upsetting balance or what makes the game so good.

Only criticisms I have of the game so far is the relationship between survivors and bandits, and where survivors stand with each other. So far I'm seeing survivors shoot others on site because of distrust or just general aggressiveness, not many bother to ask if you're friendly and it becomes a case of it's me or him. I don't like this, I much prefer that survivors agree to give each other a wide berth, some cases they might kill but I think by default they should be on good terms. Sure it's easy for us lot to use mumble, but for lone players they can't really buddy up with people they come across, and even they do there's a high risk they'll turn on you for your goods. I think this needs to be worked on so survivors can pal up and even trade items with eachother, like they might in a real situation and be rewarded for co-operating with other survivors to achieve goals.

I don't think it would be popular with you guys, but ideally I would like to see survivors be able to form propper groups so they get the name hover and not be able to shoot each other unless they leave that group. This would make it more interesting to be a bandit I think, making you a true rogue rather than just a dude with a skin. To add to that, people become bandits a little too easily imo, one kill shouldn't make you a bandit. If a survivor starts shooting at you you're gonna shoot them back, and for winning you become a bandit and that doesn't really fit with my definition of what a bandit would be, a bandit I think would use all the dishonourable methods available to him to gain, killing without campassion, not someone who doesn't want any trouble who's killed in self defence.

I'm saying this though accepting that this is indeed alpha and I'm going outright assume that things will be tested, and that things will change. I perssonally am really impressed with zombies, their behavior, threat and balance. Better than I expected when downloading a mod in alpha for Arma II, thought they'd be really basic and irritating, not sure what zed Howard's facing but I think they're pretty terrifying in numbers. The problems with zombies at the moment I'm confident will be sorted out, like the delays on the anims, spawning and inconsistance in player detection will be too. I'd expect vehicles availability to be played around with too, this is testing and I hope stuff really is tested.

This is the thing: of the many,many, many, many deaths I have had, only 1 was caused by a bandit. The rest are split evenly between ass-hat players and engine bugs.

Being able to identify your friends is paramount but unfortuntaly will never happen thanks to the frothing "its a hardcore sim" brigade. What they fail to realise is that if this were "real" then you would be able to ID each other due to differences in dress and, you know, knowing what your mates look like. Its the same as the argument for 3rd person or having crosshairs: both should absolutely be in the game as they in fact make it more sim-like but both will be excluded for the frothing eejits who think hardcore means shit design.

As to balancing the game: piece of piss.
- Lose this nonsense about having to quit out entirely before you can rejoin. The game needs a respawn button - period. Rocket can stick his "perma-death" ideals where his badly designed HDR sun don't shine.
- Zone at least the beaches, or small areas thereof, as no fire zones. Getting shot immediately as you spawn should never have been allowed. There should also be no zombies at the spawn areas. Both no brainers but then I still say our designer has no brain.


Between that, a fix for the zombie spawns, a fix for zombie navigation (slow them down, stop them walking through walls, stop them spawning in your face) and the removal of the knock-down system (I defy anyone to support that - its just gibberish) and we will be in good shape. The rest is just ARMA and that aint gonna change ever.

Tiny side note: can someone explain to genius-boy Rocket that a) Morphine has no ability to fix bones so as long as it does so in his game he will never be allowed to use words like "realistic", "sim" or "hardcore" and b) Morphine IS a painkiller, so why do both items exist and do different jobs? Bloody pillock.

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

Whilst we are on the subject of this game being 'realistic' we should be able to melee the zombies. Why do we have to completely rely on a gun and ammo?

If we had a zombie apocalypse in the UK, most households do not own a gun; we are not America. Therefore we should have the choice to grab some sort of melee weapon to at least allow us to slow the zombie/s down to escape from their clutches.

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Classy is when a woman has everything to flaunt, but chooses not to show it!

I hear that! First time I saw an axe outside a house I was so excited. My disappoint was huge when I realised it was just scenery =/

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

The more restrictions, "no-fire zones" and rules you add to the game, the more diminished the emotional experience becomes, I feel a bit sorry for you that you don't get the same feeling we do when we play. I like the fact you can't trust every survivor I see, I like the fact bandits are punished for their actions and are being shot on sight. You can't stop people being assholes; in this world, some people are scared and haven't seen another soul in hours and shoot out of fear. Other people are just dicks, they want to kill you because it means they can live longer, and who is going to stop them? I don't trust everyone I meet in real life, no matter how friendly they appear, same goes for DayZ. It's a world with no rules, survival of the fittest. I don't go around shooting survivors unless it's self defence; and the one time I did I felt awful, then I started trusting people then got backstabbed twice ~(it's the way the world works). It's the roll of the dice. Like life; and that's what makes the game so enjoyable and each kill/death so memorable. Hopefully they fix the spawns; but when I spawn on the beach, I'm holding W right away and heading for cover.

Melee does not make any sense, unless you are a body builder, try swinging an axe for more than a minute and you would get very tried very quickly, and why would you want a zombie that close to you or want to get that close to a zombie. If they were to implement it, then you would have to do it at a cost to stamina, water and food. Don't expect to survive a horde like you would in left 4 dead by just meleeing through a crowd, it would have to be a stealth device at best, and it would probably take up a slot sooo good luck running at a bandit with that. But realistically, fairly useless in the context of this sim.

Totally agree, and I've spoken to the dev's and they haven't been able to do much with the Arma2 UI yet, which is why respawning is crap atm, but that will change in time. Hope the inventory system can be made a bit more user friendly because time spent looking in their is time you do not have to spare!

But yeah, no fire zones? you kidding me? are you honestly saying in a realistic scenario all the zombies are going to wait for you? people will wait till you cross a certain line to start firing? No. Did the American's ask the Germans not to start shooting till they were on the beach? If you want to know the rules, watch Zombieland lol.

Junco if someone is shooting at you, and you don't want to become a bandit, run, save your ammo, they will probably get eaten by Zombies whilst you zig zag to safety. Use cover, and just pretend that this is your one and only life, and some guys is shooting at you. When you are playing DayZ, just always ask yourself What would I do in this situation if this was real?

Oh, and the zombies are not to be sniffed at, I stupidly shot an M14 last night, and alerted ALL of Beriz, we were me with a 50 zombie horde who surrounded the entire shop and killed two of our band as they just blocked all exits.

Hopefully they can address the few item bugs, client/server sync problems, collision issues, more character skins (though atm its pretty easy, survivor has a cap, bandits have a ninja mask, be weary of caps, and shoot masks on sight... simple) and how the zed's work with buildings. Other than that, making the game easier is just going to ruin it. If a survivor is shooting you and kills you, he will become a bandit, and speaking from experience that makes the coast even harder when you spawn as a bandit, that is free money to a survivor, so I worked really hard to get back my humanity as it's a real punishment, but the humanity system still needs some work.

The game needs to be hard, like real life - and that's not "this game is for hardcore only" but this game will turn a noob into a pro in a few lives if they embrace it. I don't particularly like being called naive, especially when a good proportion do see the point of what is being achieved here and can enjoy the experience for what it is, hard and emotional. I can remember every kill and every death more than any other game; the emotional responses the designer evokes from us is insanely good.

I feel for you that you haven't had a good time with this game so far, I haven't experience the beach problems like you have; with survivors i always ask friendly before shooting, unless i know they are not (due to the bullets), if you see a bandit, shoot on sight, it's their punishment for giving up on humanity. Other than that, trust your friends and yourself, be wary of others, and don't trust bandits, full stop. YOU are delusional if you think all people will get along in the apocalypse, delusional if you think people wont fight and kill you for resources if they are desperate, it's dog eat dog - and that's how it should and would be - it's delusional to think you can control your world, and that's what chaos theory means by the way.

I love the idea of banding together, but if you've watched your zombie films and read the books, you will know a lot of the time, the human factor is what ends up getting people killed and that's what cause the most tension and conflict, not the undead meat sacks (they are just the obstacle) - remember the annoying old woman at the start of Dead Rising

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.

Dude, I just can't take you seriosuly. You are convinced that this is a realistic game, some exotic reality simulator where everything has to be how it is the in the real world.
Its a game. Just a game. It is no different than L4D. At best - at absolute best - zombies are comedy horror. They have always been the laughing stock of the movie industry, and rightly so, so trying to take them all po faced and serious just makes you look delusional. Enjoy the GAME as much as you like but its still just a GAME, not that far removed from Serious Sam. And referencing Zombieland like its a bible of "how its done"? What are you smoking?

Controls HAVE to be enforced in this game. The Bandit skin is about to be removed and he has still made no attempt to fix the lag, fix the zombies or make the guns behave anything like real guns so the maps are just grief fests with spawn grounds being camped and new guys getting abused. If people were spawn camping in any other FPS you would nto hesitate to demand that something were done about it. This is no different. It is just a GAME and it needs its rules tweaking to allow everyone to play equally.

Melee makes absolute sense. Unless we are going for one of the retarded "zombies have super strength 'cos of some toxin and hokey science" then they are undead. Decaying, rotting, weak people. Their threat is their lack of fear and their numbers. Are you really saying that if someone in a zombie-like state (which is a real thing, though its causes are far less fantastical) were to attack you and you didn't have a gun you would just curl up and die? No, you would fight back with anything you could lay your hands on. Where's your realism now?

As to the game being "hard" - well that is an arbitrary statement. What you seem to mean is that the game should be cruel, unbalanced and utterly unfriendly to anyone new. Its a GAME. It has to follow the same guidelines as every other GAME. It can still be hard, demanding accurate shooting, limiting ammo, making food scarce, pushing us to survive off the land, scrabbling for medical supplies but it does not have to be ass-backwardly designed. If we insist on having PVP then it needs definition and consequence. If we are going to have "realistic" (cough) guns then they need to emulate how guns work, not some fallacy created by uninformed teenagers. If we are going to have this be a real, tough, scary survival game, then there have to be ways to survive that can only be undone by you fucking up, not the game fucking up every 30 seconds.
The problem is that you seem to think I am arguing that this game should be easier - but that is 'cos you aint paying attention. One thing I always argue is for difficulty to be increased: the amount I raged at Tribes and the Tom Clancy series turning into weak ass xbox mode was biblical and I feel the same here. Games can and should be hard, but they have to work. This doesn't.

You can apply as much hyperbole and overwrought emotion to your experiences as you like but its just a game and all games have rules. Making it so that this game cannot be abused, is logical and is consistent is nothing to do with making it easier or even more accessible. I want nothing streamlined or simplified and nothing I am proposing would have any impact on your (entirely fictional) "experiences". The game would play the same but it would make sense.

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

That sucks you aren't getting the same enjoyment and experience from the game as we do. I know it's a GAME but I don't a want hack and slash dead island left 4 dead, I want to feel vulnerable, weak, have misfortunes, lose friends, be betrayed, shot by assholes, and have a bullet with my name on it; that is fun and that's a realistic simulation' it's that USP which is drawing people to this game. The Zombieland reference was a joke btw Though good cardio in DayZ is important! This game really needs you to put yourself in it, and it allows you too, that's what separates it from the L4D; and that is what makes the game's main emotional attachment, the subtle design choices that defy common video game biases is what creates that. The designer is actively avoiding balance, because it makes sense for the game. For me, zombie films and books, the horror and tension has always been the human element, not the zombies, they are slow and silly, but doesn't make them any less threatening; but they are just the obstacle, not the main threat.

Fairplay though, you are a better man than me, I couldn't possibly swing a heavy two handed axe for very long (that's why lumberjacks are built like brickshithouses); plus where the hell would you go to sharpen it when it gets blunt after cutting through human bone so many times? And you are braver too, I wouldn't want to get that close to a Z in this game, unless I have my silenced MP5. <3

Curious to know what issues you have had with the guns, my kill count and headshot count are usually the same, and I miss shots if I try to shoot after running etc, you can see how crazy the reticule is as a result; you might also be in pain and need painkillers.

But yeah, making the game "fair for everyone" will just take away what makes the game great. A pro can still be killed by a noob, or have his life ruined etc, it's a dog eat dog world where the rarest item is trust and that's the most fair you can get; bandits have it worse than anyone, who would give them a blood transfusion? and not just shoot them on site at no cost to humanity? Having sections on the map where you cannot shoot is like wearing a helmet and inflatable arm bands in a puddle. My first life was short lived and terrifying, and I loved it, even thou I got shot in the face for lighting a flare, it was my fault.

I respect your opinions, some people will have trouble with the game because it is going against common and increasingly dull conventions, and I'm really happy it's going to get tougher because that's realistic to life; especially in the context of this setting. The proof is in the numbers and popularity. But if someone can't get into it, and immerse themselves in it, then of course they are going to get frustrated at it or not see the appeal that other's see. It's beautiful and he does deserve to be applauded for his efforts, even if you disagree with the choices he wants to make, he has done a lot of work of his own back and he is making games he wants to play and people like him will enjoy, which is what a good designer should be doing.

I think that would just end up alienating the original players that built the mod up and destroying what it was originally set out to be by the designer. It's like remaking an awesome foreign film for an American audience in my eyes.

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.

I'm not usually one to correct every bit of spelling or grammar, but the phrase is 'to shoot someone on sight'. Not 'on site'. You shoot them as soon as you see them.
Three different people said it in this thread alone, two of which I know are native speakers. I never knew this was such a common misconception so I thought I'd be an ass and clear that up.

Sorry for the off-topic post. It just kinda irked me.

Anyway, do continue. Even though I haven't played the mod yet this thread is a major source of entertainment for me right now

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'Belgium, a country with many homos also have a pedophile party as far as i know.' - Violetblood

Yeah I do think there is some blurring between making a game easier, and making a game functional. I've never been spawn camped but there is nothing realistic or hardcore about it. Removing of third person and crosshairs on some servers I think is just silly, it doesn't increase difficulty to me it's just like switching around the menu buttons so they're broken and more hardcore to use, or removing weapon viewmodels, or blacking out half the screen because well know that's hardcore isn't it? Making the game easier would be nerfing the zombies, increasing loot, and buffing player health etc. there needs to be a balance and I hope that the dev understands this and keeps the concept and difficulty where it is, but doesn't keep or introduce harmful or unessesary evils.

Actually about the melee, if you can accept that you can run for miles and be efficient with every weapon you find and carry ton of items, I would also accept you can swing a melee weapon. It doesn't matter if a melee is just a knife or small hammer that does tiny damage, infact even a strong melee wouldn't ever be efficient to use in this game because of bleeding and the nature of the zombies, but if you're out of ammo it's silly that you have to give up if zombies are on you, even if the melee would 8 times outta 10 wouldn't save you, it's better to be able to do something about your likely death, thats why people would hate to do die on a plane, they have to sit and die with no measure of control of their life. It could even make for some interesting stealthy kills if implemented correctly. I don't think there's support for melee in Arma but it is doable if the animations and models added, they can just be hitscan. They are needed though, you have to have some last ditch weapon that doesn't run dry it's just something all games have or need, even if the meleeing is suicide.
Well this is very situation heavy, because being shot dead can be very quick and you might not get a chance to run. If there are zombies, running is going to get you into a lot of trouble, but if he's firing on you he's done so out of panic or made sure he was in a safe position to fire. Then there is when survivors bump into eachother first instinct it seems is to shoot them or be shot, instead of "hey, wanna work together?" or choosing to go seperate ways.

Day Z is a game that is closer to a Zombie Apocalypse Simulator than anything else seen so far because of things like the massive open world, the scavenging aspect, the element of trust between you and other humans . But we'll never have such a thing as a Zombie Apocalypse Simulator. Sure, we can have different versions created of certain zombie-related scenarios, and the interpretations of how it might come about are innumerable, and it will be different for different places all over the globe anyway. And sure, we can immerse ourselves in the game world and pretend that we're really in this simulation, and that this simulation is as good as the real thing. Day Z is just more believable than, say, Left 4 Dead, and I'll go through why in a minute. But because we can never truly re-create the human element of it, zombie games will only ever hold as much meaning as the zombie game itsself does, the experiences aren't really transferable to real life. I'll get into that in a bit too.

Here's what I mean.

In many interpretations of the genre, zombies are rubbish. They shamble about, they're laughably bad at acquiring their only food source, they are easily defeated using a modicum of common sense and they will all decompose/fall to bits within a few fays anyway. Good for isolated scenarios involving cultists, evil genius research gone wrong, a small group of survivors escaping from a 'facility'/spooky graveyard/remote Spanish peasant village that may or may not be satanic - but nobody can believe that these will cause the end of humanity as we know it. Unless it's weaponised and dropped as a chemical bomb over Beijing or something, but even then you're kind of asking for humanity at large to forget how to climb up a set of stairs for it to work. Basically, this kind of zombie works in certain zombie films/games/books, but if we're told that these beings of hilarious incompetence have single-handedly overwhelmed mankind then we stop believing it could happen: the immersion is broken, it's no longer 'real'.

So we're looking at lethal bastard zombies if we're going to have an actual apocalypse. This is more or less the kind that Day Z uses: and it fits the world. A fairly important strategic zone (air bases, docks, crops) with signs of military resistance (tents, camps, military grade weaponry lying around) that has almost the entire population turned undead? Takes some fairly vicious brain-nibblers to do that, and so the ones in Day Z are. Sure, glitching through walls and seemingly dropping out of the sky (bad respawns) is just silly, as is the ability to chase after you *forever*, but they're speedy, hard hitting, swarm-minded (with just a teensy bit of nerfing so that they do get tired/give up and look for easier food/have their legs fall off after however many miles of sprinting) durable enough to make this not laughable. It allows the other stuff to add up too: there's nothing beyond the borders so we can assume that the rest of the world has gone to pieces, the power (and apparently the plumbing, going by the need to get water from wells and rivers) is out with no signs of it being fixed, and the military aren't going to be dropping bombs on the place any time soon. So, too, is setting up the position of the survivor a case of fill-in-the-blanks, and the world allows us to do well enough. The onset of zombies was rapid and nasty enough that only the fittest and best adapted (i.e. you) got out alive, and it was quick enough that towns and villages still yield enough supplies to make survival by scavenging a viable option and it killed enough well-armed people to mean that weaponry is, comparatively speaking, in abundance. The point is, all of these things add up - Day Z has a largely workable premise, there's nothing here that couldn't add up if we wanted it to. We might be taking it in subconsciouly, but with the pant-shitting factor of it all it's more than sufficient for our brains to go 'Ok, this is real. Or, at least, I'm going to believe it is and learn from it as if it were the real thing'. That's the trick of any good book, film, game, whatever: Day Z has just tricked us into believing that this is as real as it gets.

Now you can argue about believability and how close we'll get to it 'til the cows come home (or until Zeddy the undead leper acutally does break in through your front door, whatever), but technology will never be able to get to the reality of the actual human emotion. You can introduce the human element, you can stylize it to be as pseudo-lifelike as possible just as Day Z has done, but you can't actually make it real. I love Kaos's story about shooting this guy for his bandages because he was on the verge of death, and how its left him thinking. The game took you in, made you believe it's real. It triggered the same kind of panic-induced fight-or-flight madness that brings us down to an animal level, a kind of rage that we can theorise about all we like but we'll never actually know about til the red mist is upon us. It's a scary thought, but weird things happens to the human mind once survival is at stake.

But like I said, that's just the animal level. And whilst we can be reduced to the animal level, Day Z doesn't have the immediacy of the human factor in there. Sure, we can say that we might stay our hand for all sort of good reasons, that we later say it's because we thought he might be coming over to help, or because we know that it might undo hours of hard work. But what actually happens is barely any better than the animal madness, it's just that your brain switched in one direction rather than the other and you'll rationalise why later on. The truth is that interacting with a human on that level will never be the same. You can take someone's life in a video game, and the mathematical stakes at Day Z are high than in TF2. But that's just math. When you're actually face to face with a dude, the primal, instinctual level is far more involved. Stuff like what sort of body signals this guy is giving off comes into it, but more importantly... can you really end a human life, right there, right then? To use a cliche, can you actually 'look him in the eye' and take a shot? Is the animal madness a more powerful instinct that our in-built concern for a fellow human? Never mind the debate about 'is he going to help you, or will he kill you either to put you out of your misery or to rob you of your precious baked beans', because that's not what you're thinking. The fact is that you can't kill a human like you can kill an animal, even on the primal level, because that whole human element of the interaction is paramount. So the question is, what breaks first? All of these reality factors are so strong, primal and instinctual that they can never be make-believe reproduced. Day Z can operate on similar levels by drawing you in, and we can all debate about how best to do that, but until you actually put me in a forest with my guts hanging out, pistol (where did I get a pistol anyway?) pointed at a stranger of (so far) ambiguous intentions, I'll never know what I'd do, no matter how much I theorize about it or how much I can simulate it in a game, because I'm taking a human life, not shooting a wild animal (real life example) and certainly doing far, far more than committing murder in Day Z.

In the end, the decisions you make in Day Z are just that: decisions that you make in the world of Day Z. Because you associate this world with the real one (to whatever extent), you take this to be what you'd do in the 'real world'. But no matter how 'accurate' the design gets, the virtual world will never have the same consequences as reality, as toe-to-toe humans warily circling each other. Some practical lessons might be applicable, but any deep introspective insight about the workings of the human psyche you might get can't possibly be reflected in the reality. Maybe knowing full well that zombies are mindless, inhuman things, we may deal with them in very similar ways in real-life and in-game, but the human element is entirely inscrutable to the gaming/simulation world. Day Z has a human element, and it masquerades as a 'real' one well enough, but it can never be the same. We're too real for that.

...but I am being a bit of a bore, aren't I? Just thought I'd get this out there: I find it interesting enough to warrant discussion anyway. I didn't take any time to polish it, but whatever, have at it anyway!

edit: oops, new posts were made between me starting this and posting it. i'll leave this as it is anyway and go read the new stuff.

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ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: true genius
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: doesn't make sense
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: till you're senseless

Day Z creating walls of text since 2012....

Edit: Success for having the shortest post in this topic!

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Gone, but somehow not forgotten.

dougy85 : You use words like "realistic" and "emotional" so much I am simply no longer convinced that you know what they mean.

I would love for this to be realistic but the amount of restrictions on what I can do and how I can behave utterly shatter any illusion. I feel like I am staggering around in one of those nutty, budget Russian/check horror FPSs. My disbelieve is most definitely not suspended.

Zombies are something I have a huge problem with, both as a movie goer and as a writer. they are just...shit. Sure one can argue that he real joy of a zombie story is the way in which the situation twists and forms the characters, but that just makes the zombies even more pointless as they can be replaced by any old thing. If we are gonna have a zombie game, let's have a zombie game. Rocket needs to decide what the hell he is doing.

As to guns and my issue with them. This is 3 fold. Largely its an issue with the controls. The ham-fisted mechanisms that BI forced onto this game in an attempt to make it "realistic" just made it horrifically clunky. If, outside on the street, you saw someone moving and turning like one of these avatars you would probably go over to them to ask if they had lost their crutches and could you call the rest home for them. People simply do not move or behave how ARMA portrays.
This leads to the middle issue: aiming. My dude, even when utterly prone and stationery seems to have a massive case of Alzheimer's. He shakes, sways, wobbles, rolls and generally seems like he is being constantly electrocuted. Far from realistic, far from accurate and massively annoying.
The actual main point though that goes with the above 2 is the way they model guns. Clearly the designers and 99% of the people playing this game, have never fired a gun. I have. Quite a lot. I also made a point of studying firearms as research. I know how they work, how they feel, how they react, how accurate they are and what damage they cause. This game is utterly clueless however.
Shotguns are ineffective beyond about 10 yards even with solid shot (in real life, solid rounds are accurate to 150 yards), handguns are pointless beyond about 50 yards (though in real life, even the lowly 9mm round is accurate for over 400 yards) and the damage done by them is apparently random, far too low and utterly unrealistic.

As to this game going against conventions - its not really. This is just ARMA with a party hat on and ARMA has been around forever - you guys just never noticed. Moreover, I am not arguing that the game needs to be more mainstream - far from it. What it needs to do is get things right and it is failing. Rocket really needs to go play the STALKER games and get some ideas as right now there is not much here. And that brings me to my latest point:

Dear god this game is dull! Its "Sim Hobo". Once you get to grips the the map and the shonky-as-fuck engine, once you have learned how to start up, grab the stuff you need and feck off into the wilderness...there is nothing at all to do. Its an empty box. The map is so large that even with 75 people on, the chances are you will never see anyone. Sure you can argue that you will if you go an forage for supplies, but why would you? If you are paying attention and not shit at the game, then Zeds are not a problem and you are not being attacked by players so all you need to do is find food. Have knife and boxes of matches? Done: game over.

And this is what I mean about applying more rules and constraints: games need purpose and "surviving" is just too damned easy in this (game fuck ups not withstanding). Not saying we need missions or actual goals as such but there has to be something driving us bar being peckish.

Final thought: lots of people, here and on other forums, are having fun arguing that they" like/approve of Rocket's vision" and that they don't want that hard-lined, survivalist vision watered down or changed. Great and all but Rocket has yet to make a statement about what his "vision" is. Until a few weeks back this was something he threw together for shits and giggles to test the engine. he has no plan: can everyone stop trying to crown him as the new Nazerine and open their eyes to the fact that this game IS going to change a GREAT DEAL.

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

And everyone posted while I rambled

Orange - not just me that was itching to say that then?

Junco - I agree - I think you and I are on similar wavelengths

Scatter - nice post - I agree - the zombies should be more lethal, shifting the focus of the game to surviving against them. However, we should be able to deal with them in more realistic ways.

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

Howard I don't appreciate you feeling the need to be condescending to me in a video game forum discussion. I'm only stating my opinion; the fact that I can enjoy this game on an emotional level is just a tip of the hat to the designer; I don't get this level of immersion and emotional attachment in a lot of games so it's commendable really (if anyone is scratching your head at that "it's only a game?!?!" then I feel really sorry for you if you have never been able to cry, or laugh or sympathise with a film or song either). Chaos has the right idea about the game, and from what he wrote I can tell he is enjoying the game Rocket is trying to make. God knows post all the press and public interest what it's going to turn into now, I only hope it's not nerfed and made into something arcadey and boring - that is not why so many people are wanting to play this game (otherwise Dead Island would be at the top of the charts).

Hopefully they will add more spawn points, some in land too, and randomise it a lot more, that will help. But rule of thumb, get off the beach regardless. (there are a couple more in land now).
Those are just server settings, things the game devs couldn't agree on thus you get options to alter without affecting the gameplay drastically. Some people want that extra challenge, but personally for me, I like 3rd person for navigating etc. But these options are of the same distinction as turning off random crits in tf2, or allowing you not to spectate the other team in CS. These aren't DayZ changes, so just stick to normal servers. You see this in games all the time, that's why the amount of available options in games differs from title to title. Usual adjustable settings are design decisions that were on the fence, and they just allow the player to choose a preference as it doesn't affect the core experience, things as basic as gamma to things like player count and respawn times.
I wanted melee, it sucks (and is equally awesome) when you run out of bullets that your only choice is to run (but that's realistic). But you can't run for ages in this game, you will run out of food and start to bleed. If they do melee, it will have a long swing (not rapid L4D swings) and will come at a cost (like ammo) for food and water, which will go down quickly for balance purposes (which is realistic). But completely agree melee, will be as dangerous (or more so) than guns, as you have to get close (and what does it replace, your primary weapon? your backpack? which ofc offers awesome emotional decisions in game).
Yes indeed, it's situational, what will the dice roll hold for you? are you going to get shot? run for cover? will he get eaten, or was he prepared to shoot in a good position. It's the beauty of the game, you are dealt a hand and you have to do the best you can to survive. As for running into survivors, some will shoot first, others will try and be a team, others will start a team then fuck you over. Again, it's part of the game's emotional dynamic; you don't get multiplayer trust and deception in games very often.
Nice post Scatterbrain, ofc there is always nothing can be completely realistic and yeah if you could do that, then... that's crazy, that's Total Recall lol
But this game isn't about killing zombies, and other people, it's about survival and making important decisions. I will remember every kill and every death, because of the designers decisions in regards to gameplay I become very attached to my one life and that causes the emotional attachments to my actions. I felt terrible when I just murdered someone, and I apologised for it to the guy. I soon forget an awesome COD kill streak, but I'll always remember sniping a bandit in the back after he murdered my friend in cold blood.

The game does have a basic narrative (the dev said they are slowly going to add subtle hints to the whole virus outbreak etc), but it's really not important once it's just you trapped in a huge open landscape, with danger around every corner. Which I like, it's the subtle story telling that L4D did, and the opposite of the crappy story dead island was stuck with.

I have a few problems with some of the realism, like having to find special clips for silenced weapons, just seems a bit too much for me personally among a few other annoying issues.

Realism should not get to the point of boredom and frustration, and that's the subtle balance that the designer has to monitor carefully. I like the fact that all the guns are different, some houses have empty cans and some places are full of guns, or nothing; and one med pack does not cure all. But yeah, realism is hard to balance, because if you push it to far, a fun sim becomes a chore; which this hasn't for me yet.

But like Chaos say's in his help guide, you have to roleplay a little bit and use your imagination to fully appreciate this game, and I know alot of gamer's can't do this, and that's perfectly fine but they won't appreciate what this game is trying to accomplish; which is why they would prefer l4d, but perhaps a bigger map.

Let us know when you have played it, because if you start telling people stories, then the game has got you. That's the best thing about this game (dev's own words) is the stories, killing one guy in any other game isn't an interesting story, but when you tell the tale of your friends trip and the horrors and scares you encountered is brilliant and an awesome bi-product of this mod.


I really just hope Rocket doesn't let the majority public fuck up his game and change it into something else.

Howard, zombies should and never will be the main threat, they are a just an obstacle. Human's competing over resources and self-preservation at whatever cost is the real threat in a narrative and that should never change. The Walking Dead graphic novels are a great example of this, the zombies get a bit on the front cover, and then the inside is 50 pages of dialogue and actions between characters. But that's really just subjective, I find the premise of a zombie to be very terrifying indeed. This isn't a zombie killing game, and if you treat it like that, then of course you are going to die a lot. I know where the zombies are and how to deal with them, but a human player is unpredictable, and dangerous if they need to be. But equally you need them too, so finding someone to trust has to happen too for blood transfusions etc.
Hopefully, he will just add more too it, fix things, more buildings, more items, ability to setup safe houses etc. If you want objectives, make them yourself, that's what we do when we play. But I hope he doesn't take away from it, or make it too easy and forgiving, because that is not the point at all. He's not the new Nazerine, but it's nice to see a game designer take some risks, and make the game they want to play and I like the fact he is ignoring a lot of the people telling him to change the game into something that wasn't what he set out to make. A lot of those suggestions will just end up ruining it and it will turn into an open world dead island which would be really boring and unoriginal. That's the kind of crap publishers do because they don't want to piss off their customers and end up crushing good ideas and replace them with mediocrity and that's when you get the same brown corridor shooter. The only reason it's using the Arma engine is because that's what he knows and is working with; and with the technical constraints most engines would have with his vision, it's appropriate for now. Not that I wouldn't love to see this on another engine but with the same mechanics and controls.

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.

I am not being condescending and I apologise if I am coming off that way. This is a debate: nothing more.
I am just saying that your entire argument is to say "I LIKE IT" in as many ways as possible while using the words "emotional" and "realistic" as many times as possible but deriding anyone who disagrees with parts of the game. You are not presenting any arguments or reason beyond "you guys just don't get it". Maybe people are not getting it but another way to look at that argument is that you are inventing something that is not actually there, then saying that that is what is awesome about the game. Something that is not part of the mod, was not designed and not even considered by the mod's author, is the best part of the mod? I just do not see that as a good argument. You enjoying it is fine, but sweeping hyperbole that, in essence, says its my fault 'cos I am not making up my half of the game is just more than a little crazy.

And more importantly stop people camping the spawn points as it is crippling the game. But that is something you inexplicably label as "non-realistic" even though this is a game about zombies in which a vial of morphine can magically repair a broken limb.
No, it isn't. Be it zombies, aliens, Iranians, Martians or the vanguard of hell, people will fight. If running could ever yield a good outcome I might fractionally agree with you but it cannot. Being limited to just guns is idiotic. Have you any idea how good a club the AK47 is? Someone attacks me while I am holding one of them and I canto fire, I'l have their head stoved in before they are within arms reach.
No, it isn't. Swinging a melee weapon for a few short seconds is something a child could do. In fact they do it every time they play tennis or baseball or any one of a thousand other actions. Why is it people like you who have a "sim" fetish think that humans are pathetically weak and will just collapse after a few moments of exercise? You are just being crazy
Here we go again. This is a perfect example. You have just said that your backpack, a software representation of a cloth bag in which you have cans of food, ammo and medical supplies "offer awesome emotional decisions"? At this point you are either trolling, extremely bad at making a point or don't know the meaning of the word. Do you mean important? Poignant? Vital? Critical? You cannot mean emotional as it makes no sense
So the zombies are in the game as....catering staff? In flight entertainment? Of course the zombies are central to this, as are the monsters in any game. The fact that you CAN PVP in this game does not nullify or neuter the importance of the role that the zombies play. They are an obstacle to be factored in and dealt with - maybe even used if you are cunning. Dismissing them entirely pushes me back to thinking that this is just deathmatch with consequences to you.
But you do not have one life and the designer's decision was "can we have a persistent world with zombies?". You are not just reading more into it than is there, you are now inventing an entire meta-game and claiming that that is what was intended. You say you will remember each death in this game but why? Everyone there knows what the game is. Everyone there is expecting the same as you. They know they could die and that they will then lose their gear. Given that you can simply respawn as often as you choose and that it takes less than 20 minutes to get a full set of gear, how is this such a big thing? Its simply Quake with a very long lobby queue
So one of the few correct things in the game related to weapons and you object to it?
No one is asking for the core game-play to be changed, least of all me. The issue is you people, the "die hard fans" (even though this game is a month old...lol). You are so zealously obsessed with screaming "NO NO NO NO" to any proposed change you are missing the point. The game is, at a mechanical level, shoddy in the extreme. What we are asking is for things to be fixed so that, over all, the experience is smoother and, at least at the start, more uniform. I don't want scoreboards adding or PVP removing or food made more plentiful or for zombies to be easier - we just want things to make sense and be consistent. Just because you are able to suspend your disbelief so easily, it does not mean that everyone else is.
The narrative of the game is based around the players - no one has argued otherwise. To fight, or flee, to cooperate or betray - these are the most powerful parts of the game (as in they are the most affecting). The zombies however are the major part of the backdrop and are thus the main protagonist of the game. They are the ever present threat, the obstacle to all your endeavours and likely the cause of most of your deaths. This is why they need to be boosted and fixed and made to function properly.
But things do need to change. What you are not grasping is what I am asking to be changed. Not one of the things I find fault with would in any way change your experience or diminish the experiences you have had so far. All they would have done is removed the stupid, immersion breaking moments that fuck this game up royally.

As to why he used the ARMA engine: 'cos its his job? He works for BI and was asked to test out some capabilities of the engine. That is how this mod was born, not from some great desire to make something but because it suited a testing need. There are many, many other engines that not only could have been used for this game but would have done it far better. The only reason, aside from those just stated, that this mod ended up here was the map. Creating a huge map in which to play this type of game is the main drawback. ARMA already had that task complete, allowing him to go ahead with his plans. All he had to do was recode the patrolling soldiers as zombies and add the hunger and thirst elements. Everything else was already there.

Again, not saying we should not be grateful to him for what he did but you are inventing a mythology around him, stating that he has a vision and that he had a plan when no such thing existed. I am very glad he made it and I would gladly by him a pint but instead of kissing his arse, I would use that pint to explain the stuff he's gotten wrong.

FWIW and to try and balance this out a little and give you a fuller picture, I still play the game and plan to continue to do so but it is running out of steam for me. Because there is so little control, because the engine and interface is so tragically broken and because the game is ultimately purposeless, I am becoming bored. Admittedly this IS one of the occasions when we can say "its just an alpha" as this will likely change and we will have more to do. Again, I say he needs to look to STALKER for his inspiration as this mod essentially is MP STALKER minus the radiation - and this is something I have wanted for a very long time.

I want to have high hopes but having heard so many voices like yours, all screaming "don't change it, you'll make is boring" when all we are asking is for it to be fixed is disheartening.

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

Just read this back and it sounds odd. Let me briefly clarify. I am in no way saying that role-play and meta-gaming is a bad thing. My point is that they are a personal thing and trying to sell me something purely on the strengths of YOU private "version" of the game is that part I find illogical and weird. I know it happens, I do it myself, but our experiences will be vastly different and I find the praise lavished on Rocket for work the player is doing to be distasteful.

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

Nice post Scatter <3
I'm not talking about l4d with melee attacks; running in to melee all the zombie's as a suicide attempt to kill all zombies, I'm talking about more on the off chance when one sneaks up on you or spawns on you etc and if you don't have any ammo for your gun how else are you supposed to protect yourself? If you don't have any friends around, you end up how Howard described as the Benny Hill run. If this game was to be realistic that wouldn't happen because you would be able to fend the zombies off with whatever you can find be it dirt to the face or a stick or even climb up the nearest tree!
As a choice I wouldn't pick up a heavy two-handed axe, I would pick up something more manageable for my build, like a big freaking torch to whack them in the face with if they got too close! Using an axe as an example is a bit silly really as there are plenty of objects around me as I sit at my computer that I could easily throw at a zombie, I definitely won't be using my vinyl collection that's for sure So melee should be a part of the game. Oh and btw, it's easy enough to sharpen your blade, all you need is a stone and some water

Another attack that should be implemented is if the zombies get too close you should be able to push them away, surely that would be the first thing you would do? Not just stand there and let them eat you. I mean, you can't even throw the empty gun at them in the hope to stun them a little so you can make your get away.

If you have watched your zombie films you will also notice that they use melee weapons, they are able to push the zombies away and able to throw something at them. Which is what I would expect to do if this was real life

Now where's my KATANA?!

Stopping to change weapons is another thing that needs to be looked at!

Did you know that zombie's don't actually exist? I know that because I was a zombie in my zombie movie (which is just going through post production and will be available to watch soon)
I agree here. If one wanted to play the game this way then all you've got left to do is run around the wilderness (and you can't even do that naked) and look for the odd supply here and there. If this were me in real life I would want to look for an area where I can settle, maybe build a house, start a family, get a dog..... Oh sorry, wrong life!

It's Kaos not Chaos
Wait... I thought you said melee didn't make sense?
Total Recal is awesome

And just to clarify, zombies really don't exist, therefore the reality in this game is based on other people's presumptions on what could happen.

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Classy is when a woman has everything to flaunt, but chooses not to show it!

Thing is, that is what he considered for the mod, he loved the fact and said in an interview that his mod was making people tell "stories" and 1 kill has more meaning than any FPS action game. That's purely the point I'm trying to get across, how much emotional return you get from the game is indeed different player to player; but at it's core the game isn't about frags etc as you of course know.
Well you can't stop people camping on the hills taking out people on the coast, but hopefully lots more spawn points on the coast and in land would hopefully reduce this issue; or perhaps use do what deathmatch games do and spawn people away from threats as much as possible (which mostly works...apart from games like COD lol).

EDIT:
As for the morphine thing, yeah it doesn't make sense, you can't reset bone with painkillers, but that's when you have to push back on ultra realism because as a player in a game you don't want to have to set your bones, cast them, wait for the cast to dry, heal over 2 months etc lol. What's good is that the health system isn't just one pack and a syringe. You could argue that someone giving you a blood transfusion would have to first check your blood type, get the right packet, and avoid giving you an infection whilst giving it to you lol.

That's pretty out there Howard, you don't see that happen a lot, that's why countries have armies and people trained in conflict resolution. You didn't have the people in Godzilla punching his feet or throwing rocks at the ships in Independence Day. Running is just as good a tactic as anything else; it's about survival. Don't get me wrong, fighting back is cool and I do that myself when the outcome is in my favour, but if the odds are stacked, a tactical retreat is the better solution.
Wrong. A few short seconds? Okay; well let's hope they don't just keep coming at you then; you will run out of tennis rackets. I'm pretty thrown back by this argument. How long could a professional baseball player constantly keep swinging a bat, under pressure? I'm not saying one swing means you have to eat a mars bar, but it's a cost to stamina the same as running in the game; it will speed up your water and food requirements. Human's aren't pathetically weak, but they are not super human; I personally couldn't swing a melee weapon with the force to cut through bone and muscle for very long, call me crazy though If your hud icons are read, melee would be hindered even more. I'm not saying it's not a good idea, and I'd like to see it, but it's not going to help much, it will have the same costs and factors as guns and any physical activity in the game.
Again, condescending. If im getting concerned about what I carry with me, and it's not just borderlands where im just picking up crap all the time, that's an emotional response; i'm not breaking down in tears and yelling at the sky, which is what I assume you think the word purely means. Sure it can be an important to my survival, or my attack or my defence but each one of those decisions carries with it an emotional cost, which is something the developer intended and said in an interview he wanted to happen.
No like I said three times now, zombies are the obstacle, the controllable threat. It's a line they make in TWD graphic novels. I can walk in and out of a town with no problem, because the zombies are just there to stop me from just running around grabbing everything and just being the more equipped player in a really wide open shitty deathmatch. The zombies are a threat, and I know this well. But I'll always be 10 times more afraid when I see a bandit OR a survivor in the same town; because I can't predict them, know their intentions or necessarily deal with them. And like in lots of films you see this, they board up the door, zombies can't get in, but them some biker or some old bint smashes it open to save a dog and gets everyone killed. Zombies are there for balance too, like Juncos example, my badass Bandit shooting at me, has just shot himself in the foot as he has to deal with the horde now. I get the impression you think I actively take a role in PVP, but I don't, those guys are a threat and I'll avoid confrontation at all cost if it hinders my survival prospects.
Well that's where you and me differ. You have one life; sure you respawn (but as a new person) otherwise lol the game would be over in a week till you have the last 2 players on earth trying to find each other in a huge map hehe. You can argue I'm reading into it, but it's an entertainment product, if I just wanted to shoot people with no meaning I'd play your average FPS. But this isn't just running around a corner then boom, 1 kill, this is more like pissing yourself round a corner whilst 4 bandits armed to the teeth stroll by and you are trying not to panic or make a sound. If you have ever played Penumbra or Amnesia and felt scared or terrified, this is the same deal for me; it's not open world cod with zombies in my eyes, nor the developers. That's fine though, everyone plays differently, and everyone has different emotional reactions to things, I laughed at the end of Titanic whereas other people cried for example, but we are not C3PO; and the best part of the game for me is how it makes me feel, and how running in the woods for an hour holding W is still got me sat on the edge of my seat. It's personal enjoyment and I guess my point was it's a shame you are missing a real trick there in what they are accomplishing.
How is that correct? Both guns are the same model, just one has a suppressor on it, both mags go into the same slot. Mechanically it's realistic for both clips to work. So yeah, I object to it on those grounds...
I'm not anti bug fixing lol, the server client thing is a mess and needs to be looked at, most of my issues with the game are either known bugs with dropping items etc, client side lag, and the horrible UI. There is a scoreboard btw ^^ But all those issues are just the bi-product of this mod actually being able to work and it's a capacity build at best at the moment. I know you are not saying this, but my point purely is, I don't want to see the game consolfied, or have rubber arm bands put on it, or become something that makes people feel like super human video game characters. The engine is a tone of crap don't get me wrong; but like I said to you he works there, it's what he had and knew, and that's cool; I doubt this mod would be out atm if he tried it on any other engine; and if it was im sure the scale would be less grand and it wouldn't be the same experience. I HOPE! someone approaches him with some fucking wiz coding team and a sexy engine and he gets to move away from BE and do his own thing.

I agree they need to be sorted out, the zombie function atm isn't a great solution for the feature but it's what will work atm. I hope they sort it out though, as the zombies atm aren't as dynamic as we would all like. But the new types are pretty cool, especially when you stop to take a break, look thru your binos then suddenly hear that fucking crawler you left at the barn is still coming for you lol. Don't misunderstand me thou, the zombies will always be a threat, but my point was, they are the controllable threat, whereas a human player isn't.
Not really sure why you are giving me the history lesson lol? I've said previously I've spoke to him on email about it a few weeks ago and referencing his written ethos. I also think you are over thinking my admiration, I will always applaud a designer for making the game's they want to play; he was testing the engine sure, but he was also making the game he wanted to play as a result. I wouldn't suggest to him to look at any other games imo, just hopes he makes it the way he wants too like my favourite dev's like rocksteady and valve do. They make games for themselves, not the people.

The "screaming" isn't about fear of change, it's fear that someone's going to rip out the core of what makes this game awesome for me, and that can soo easily happen the minute you open up and bend over to every demand. Don't get me wrong, I've got a fuck tonne of ideas for this game; but it all builds upon; challenge, fear, loss and survival of the fittest. His upcoming ideas sound great, if they can fix the server bugs, weird client issues, and annoying inventory problems that would be awesome.
Well these things normally start because of some secret government chemical leak or a meteorite so you never know You will eat those words on UD Day. ^^



Sure, but you would need to put a stone sharpener or a location in the game in the case, and that's cool. Now you have to go find a sharpener or location nearby to replenish your melee weapon. Sort of like how Dead Island did it, but at more of a cost.

The use melee weapon's in films ofc, I never disputed that. But it's not going to be easy was my point. And these aren't classic romero zombies, these are infected "zeds". Throwing your weapon might knock out one but in the sim it's not going to be a long term solution lol. When I think about myself trying to fight something like that in real life, it frightens me, how many could I hold off? How long till my arms get tired? Or I drop the weapon? What do I do about the zombie behind me. It's factors like that I hope he considered if he implements it. Best case is too run, and hopefully they will give the zombies some stamina limitations too; depends on how the Zed's anatomy works.

I know a couple of friends who have got big group settlements now, it's interesting to see what players are doing in this open world.

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.

I'm just baking some bread now so I'll stick those words in a sandwich with some homemade mayo
It's ok, I have a whetstone. I'll just stick that in my backpack, it only needs a little water so I won't need to use all of my water supply
Oh yes, the first thing I would do is run which is exactly what I do in the game and it was the first thing I was taught when I was learning a martial art. But I definitely agree that they too should either get bored of chasing you or run out of stamina as you say.
Awesome. Take me to their leader!

Oh and welcome to SpecialAttack

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Classy is when a woman has everything to flaunt, but chooses not to show it!

Hehe don't forget to pack your toque too! lol

Yeah the zombies should buckle after a few yards or if you get the eye icon down to zero bars or something. Zombies gotta eat too! But now everytime I see someone doing the run in the distance, thanks to howard I'm now referring to it as the benny hill run now and the music plays in my head too.. thanks for that howard that part of the game isn't scary now hehe (unless it's happening to me :S) - though i found out yestarday if you can get near docks or steep cliffs you can make them fall down and break their legs etc! WIN WIN!

Thank you, the guys said it was a nice gaming forum, and they did stop my bleeding lol.

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.

Ooo bonus tip. Shiney!
Yay

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Classy is when a woman has everything to flaunt, but chooses not to show it!

And so this idiotic monstrosity shambles on.

Another death this morning after the patch (I'll come to the "the patch" in a minute) because the inventory is now more broken than ever.

I just bled to death in a barn even though I have 6 bandages, 5 blood-packs, 3 auto-injectors and tonnes of morphine. Why? Shit design, that's why.
Half the time you cannot get items back out of your backpack. I ended up dropping 90% of the stuff I had on the floor before it finally let me take a bandage out and use it. Why something has to be taken from your bag and placed into your pouched before you can use it is anyone's guess. Oh now - its obvious: its because of shit design.

Then, after having bled down to <3000 blood due to this shit design, I get attacked again. This time, post patch, the action option for bandaging myself was just missing entirely. So, again, I had to stand there, bleeding, waiting for the retarded egg-timer again, then watching my character wake up with -50 blood ( ) and having the game let me stumble about for 3 minutes , still bleeding, before finally dying at -258 blood.

Genius - just fucking genius.

As to the patch: have fun with that. Most servers haven't updated and if you, without patching, join an updated server, it wont warn you. What it will do, is let you play for a few mintues before blacking out your screen and telling you to update. That happening mid fight was just SO entertaining.
And if you do update and join an outdated server - again kids, no way to tell - it will jsut crash your game.

The levels of genius are about to reach orbit

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"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

This sickness feature sounds interesting, I wondered what these antibiotics I found were for.

Glad they removed filling up water bottles from the sea, that definitely didn't make sense lol

Yeah I agree Howard, the UI for the inventory is really sketchy sometimes, but once you learn its nuances it's manageable and you won't have a lot of the issues you described. On my first life, I dropped my gun and all my stuff, lit and flare in the middle of cherno at night inside a 1m x 1m hut... then some guy over chat said hello and shot me. http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=785 hope that helps, did for me and now the only issues I have is with sync lag and when you swap weapons sometimes it deletes the one you drop. Also when swapping bags, make sure you drop your current bag somewhere clean and away from items.

I'm still not entirely sure why they have removed the bandit skin. What exactly didn't work about it?

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.

Because you can't scroll your wheel to bandage, eat food or drink water you now have to open up your inventory and right click on the item you want to use. There you will see the message to bandage yourself or eat or drink water. Unfortunately this means it takes a few more seconds to bandage yourself losing you more blood in the meantime.

I've noticed with the backpack that if it is full and you try to click an item in, you lose it. I have lost many items by this including bandages, 2 pistols and all my ammo

Last night the game took on a completely new bug. With the new update my temperature went down (of course running doesn't heat you up ) I then got a fever and started coughing which alerted the zombies. So I had to keep my distance. My temperature was now zero, I was shaking like a Heroin addict needing his/her next fix and I had just under 2000 blood. I thought if I could get into shelter it may raise my body temperature.

Lucky for me (unlucky for Junco) he alerted the zombies which allowed me to leg it into the warehouse. I had 4 zombies chasing me and I ran into the warehouse, turned round to shoot, my Winchester wouldn't shoot ARGHH PANIC. It was full of ammo, it just wouldn't shoot, so then it was the Benny Hill run around the shelves until all of a sudden I couldn't run anymore. SHIT! I was walking at a horribly slow pace which allowed the zombies to catch up with me and start mauling me. NO WAY HOSEY. I am not dying this way. DISCONNECT!

Managed to save myself by the quick thinking disconnect. It's not like I was afraid of losing my 2 day character I just wasn't willing to die because of a random bug that locked my Winchester and slowed me to a snail crawl.

So anyway, I reconnected just outside the Warehouse, managed to fill my backpack up (by then the second update had arrived and my temperature went up from 4 to 5... Wooopeee! ) Still coughing and spluttering I managed to leg it up the hill with a few zombies following me because of all the darn noise I was making, killed them and ate all the food in my backpack which brought me up to just under 4000 blood. Unfortunately it was 3am by this time and seeing as we have these things called 'Jobs' I thought it best to call it a night/morning.

I'm just hoping my character doesn't die now from either no food or a stupid fever

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Classy is when a woman has everything to flaunt, but chooses not to show it!

Well I was out in the rain all day and night lol, luckily this was pre-upate, and I had a pint of night nurse in my back.

The inventory system has horrible UI, but if you read that guide it does help. Helped me in addition to just learning from my fatal mistakes :<

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Go Solo, team up with friends or take on the world as you choose your path in this brutal and chilling landscape using whatever means you stumble upon to survive.

This is day Z. This is your story.