Yeah, the problem is here, as I have tried to point out, is that Choice 5 is crap.

The ability that the average MCer has to remember what went on before is bafflingly low. If everyone is on one map, the ground outside Spawn Town will be devastated within the week - if it takes them that long. The whole map will be littered with mud huts and everyone's builds, res'd or not, will have 10 people living within 5 blocks of them, annoying the shit out of them and stopping expansion.

Do you guys REALLY not remember how bad the Iron City map was? OPs never got to play, as all we ever did was respond to 10,000,000 calls of "I'VE BEEN GRIEFED" and run around yelling at people for building in dumb assed places.

I am not going back to that.

If this is what you want then fine. I'll set up the map (a new one, completely blank), set up the plugins and leave you to it. You can build your own Iron City and you can run yourselves ragged tying to manage it.

You need a better solution - whether you want one is up to you.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

Quoted it all, because pretty much all of it relates to the following text.
      So, here goes. Bedlam itself is a brilliant way of rooting idiots and giving all the players something to work on. The problems lie in the absence of protection + the ability to kill other players. I don't think anyone likes being griefed and killed. That's why players start forming factions of sort and building fucktard cities/towns. Sure, survival of the fittest, but please keep in mind that most people just want an upgraded version of the Classic Minecraft (also commonly known as Freebuild - I myself am one of these players). In my opinion you could leave the extreme survival to DayZ or some other meaningful game, not to Minecraft. Of course I need survival ascpects to stay interested more than a few days, but... Yeah...
      I miss the Iron City map, the one I played in. It was, in my honest opinion, very successful. Sure, I cried out for help every now and then when some fucker had griefed me, but that was all of my own foolishness. I could've zoned my build better, but I didn't. The most common part to be griefed was my fountain, which would've taken about $70 to zone entirely, and that's not much... The Iron City itself worked out very well with all the market stalls and Babely shit.
      I know this message is pretty pointless, but bear with me. Howard, we need you to straighten our shit for us. I know it's not the most appealing work in the world, but as you must know, we're pretty helpless without you. If we are ever going to flourish, we need someone able-bodied to sort us out. It seems as though only harsh measures sink into our thick heads.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL502D6BAD7E3A5EB8 – My compositions :U
_____

“If I myself had to portray the term 'people' by drawing it, I'd draw a mere gaping mouth, a clamouring mouth.” ― Pentti Linkola.

Samiak I appreciate the confidence you have in me and I know that the current Bedlam thing aint working, but I gotta say: I am shit out of alternative ideas.

We need everyone to be together so that the new guys feel like they belong to a community and are not just left to die alone in teh wilderness but we need better defences against the harm that guests can do. Right now, if we went with Choice 5, it would be a living nightmare as a great many of our OPs, all the old SupOps and all the old Trustees (and 1 of the current trustees) have vanished. it would be me and about 4-6 other guys trying to manage a 40 slot server with maybe 30 of those slots being guests. I'd crack in under a day!

I just refuse to believe there is no answer for this. People have talked about having what is essentially a mini Bedlam inside the main map: a sort of corralled off area where teh guests can do their worst. This has some merit but a) I can't thing of a way to do it and b) they will still get griefed to shit.

The other problem is that with LWC, Residence and no explosions, the server becomes too safe again. Bedlam was a last ditch attempt to have some danger in the map and with it gone, its back to Hello Kitty World. Sure we can dick about with Mob spawns (via mbl's plugins) but that only takes us so far. I'd love to have explosions back on but people pay so little attention that we end up with a map that looks like the surface of the bloody moon!

I dunno, I really don't. Turns out we have a month to think about this as 1.3 is not pegged for an August 1st release. Just hope we can come up with a solution by then.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire

Mmh. That's all I ever wanted to say - just couldn't find the words. We'd need a hell of a lot more staff members to deal with the amount of grief caused by oddlings if "nro. 5" is to be the new setting. The only problem is that we don't have enough staff to deal with it. I myself couldn't cope with being an Operator and undoing grief all the time, or at least I think that's how it would end up being. Of course I would never deliberately let our community down, so if it came to it, I'd be willing to contribute... Well... Again, I have to say just "yeah" :L
      For the "mini-Bedlam"... It could be very great, but the only major problem lies with implementing it (as you said). I say that it's either Bedlam or no Bedlam. Put it in other words, it's "major grief for everyone" or "major grief for some".
      There is a golden way to everything, at least that's what I think. It's not like Rome was built in one day. The same "rule" applies to us as well - we just have to keep on trying until the right way to handle things is done. Frankly, that might never happen. Rome collapsed at one point too. The difference between the two is that we've always found a way to prolong our lifetime and our servers - trying to extend the true spirit of SpA, which is to provide a safe and friendly gaming environment for everyone. We've had our downfalls but they've always been followed by greatness, no matter how short. This is no time for a downfall. Mark my words - not just Howard, but everyone out there - we shall not perish. We shall provide players a true SpA'ian environment still. Some may never come back, but if they visit our servers, they'll know what real gaming is all about.

_________________
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL502D6BAD7E3A5EB8 – My compositions :U
_____

“If I myself had to portray the term 'people' by drawing it, I'd draw a mere gaping mouth, a clamouring mouth.” ― Pentti Linkola.

So, we need a way to create and manage a server that anyone can join but also filters out Griefer Guests to a point where, while admins certainly will have something to do, they won't have to take down names to get through all the griefing?

Why don't we create a way to assign guests to lots? When a new server guest shows up and accepts the rules, an admin can bring them to an empty lot and LWC it for them (we'll want some default setup, like liquids on, or what have you). I think of "lots" as large fenced off squares (though we don't need to use fences) within which the guest has ownership. Should be decently large, maybe 50x50? You decide there, we need to manage space somehow.

The guest could just memorize where their lot is (they could all be along the edge of the map or something), they could be in a different world in which they are either autoteleported to their lot (possible?) or walk to it, use /home but can't use it on main map. I'm sure there's a way to pull that off.

However, if the guest wants to go get resources or explore the world, they need find them in the rest of the map. I don't know what the normal map may be like, bedlam-ish? Homestead-like? Either way, the guest is vulnerable in that part of the map like any other. It's a dangerous no mans land with all the goodies.
We could even make this all on one map, so those who are members and up can LWC on the map itself and as guests explore for resources and whatnot they will see builds and all that good stuff. This would definitely affect the economy, but you guys have a better idea of how that all interacts than I do. Of course with this we could also keep the bedlam model to some extent instead of combining it with homestead.


There would need to be regulations set down along the lines of:
-Guest lots will expire and be nuked and reset if not altered for a month's time (or so)
-Guests are unable to use LWC but can -cprivate (we could have little "guide" signs in their lots for them to look at for reference)
-Other guests can visit other guests lots (so if they don't lock their chests it's their fault, good training) but cannot build in them (would we enable "use"?)
-When a guest is ranked up to member they can choose to start over or perhaps have their build moved somewhere. If we have enough lots maybe they can even keep it where it is, so long as they res it themselves.
-We would put Bedrock under their lots (maybe 10 down) so they have a basement but don't run the risk of being Bugs'Bunnied (dug under and invaded)

There would be other things set up for this, but I can't think of a better way to both control but not eliminate grief while also giving guests an appropriate amount of freedom.

Thoughts and alterations, anyone?

Edit: This may even help with having a centralized market, now that I think about it. We could make an underground market that's under the lots, easily accessable to guests and members alike.

-SeaBreach

Thanks for pitching in, Seabreach, but these suggestions are simply not workable in any way. We cannot even get people to follow simple rules so following a massively prosaic setup like you are advocating would be entirely impossible.

_________________
"Fire rained from the sky on the day I was born: 10,000 lives I ended before drawing first breath. Do not speak to me of guilt or regret, Jonathan.” - Brayan, The Keepers of the Fire