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Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=2201		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  [SpA]Spikespiegel [ 29 Mar 2008, 11:43 ]
Post subject:  Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Today I played a game of 7v7 Gravel pit on server1. A guy named "Bob the builder" joined the defending team, and it didn't take him long to build up a sentry gun at a questionable place. The sentry gun was underground on point A, at a place where it could shoot anyone who exit from the blu spawn, but where blu was unable to shoot back on it.

I told him numerous times to remove it, without him responding.

Not until Magisk joined, did he remove it. He said that he did not know it was against the server rules to exploit (How thick can you get?), but I think the real reason he removed it was because it was to no use for him anymore. Blu had capped A, and was attacking C from B.

Proof below:

Image
Author:  [SpA]SonnyBlack [ 29 Mar 2008, 11:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proo inside)
We had such an exploit-user again in the last few days.
He will be banned I guess. :mrgreen:
Author:  [SpA]SaintK [ 29 Mar 2008, 11:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proo inside)
Ban added, thanks for reporting.
Author:  Quattro [ 29 Mar 2008, 20:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
thought i banned him, must have typed 1 minutes instead of 1 week :lol:
Author:  DoC [ 30 Mar 2008, 16:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
On the same map:
How do engies build SGs on the roof of cap B :roll:
Author:  [SpA]Spikespiegel [ 30 Mar 2008, 16:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
DoC wrote:
On the same map:
How do engies build SGs on the roof of cap B :roll:
It's also an exploit. They build a dispenser on the ramp, use the dispenser to jump up high enough to place a teleporter exit on the roof. Then they use the teleporter to get up there.

Another place you can build, but which is not quite as big an exploit is on Hydro inside the (Blu?!) base, next to the Cap Point. Build a dispenser, and use it to jump on to the small cabinets. Jump from the cabinets, on to the firealarm, and further on to the big pipes. Now you can get on top of the small room and build a sentry gun. When I say it's not as "big" an exploit, it's because you only have to do a single dispenser jump to get there, and the position can only really cover the point and lower access point. The upper access point is out of reach, and soldiers can easily take down the sentry from there.
Author:  DoC [ 30 Mar 2008, 17:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Spikespiegel wrote:
DoC wrote:
On the same map:
How do engies build SGs on the roof of cap B :roll:
It's also an exploit. They build a dispenser on the ramp, use the dispenser to jump up high enough to place a teleporter exit on the roof. Then they use the teleporter to get up there.

Another place you can build, but which is not quite as big an exploit is on Hydro inside the (Blu?!) base, next to the Cap Point. Build a dispenser, and use it to jump on to the small cabinets. Jump from the cabinets, on to the firealarm, and further on to the big pipes. Now you can get on top of the small room and build a sentry gun. When I say it's not as "big" an exploit, it's because you only have to do a single dispenser jump to get there, and the position can only really cover the point and lower access point. The upper access point is out of reach, and soldiers can easily take down the sentry from there.
The second one I have never seen, but that SG on the roof just kills me:( Dunno if it's for ban, but I've seen at least 2 players building SGs there and it's irritating :(
Author:  Teddynator [ 30 Mar 2008, 18:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
the sg on the roof of B is no exploid.....you can get easily rid of it.
other then that, you have to use "legal" ways to get up there.
Author:  namelessone [ 30 Mar 2008, 19:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Teddynator wrote:
the sg on the roof of B is no exploid.....you can get easily rid of it.
Agreed.
But it's still illegal on SpA servers as far as I know :(

The only questionable thing is the fact that the spys can't get to it, but there are dozens of other places to put the sentry that are allowed and that the spy can't touch (eg. the most common - dustbowl stage 3, point A, shortcut from the spawn).
Author:  Teddynator [ 30 Mar 2008, 20:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
agreed. :)

You have to know that SPA is a dictatorship oô...saint is very evil and he doesn't allow anything that he doesn't like :12 :|
Author:  Crovax20 [ 30 Mar 2008, 21:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Teddynator wrote:
the sg on the roof of B is no exploid.....you can get easily rid of it.
other then that, you have to use "legal" ways to get up there.
In my opinion it is. The sentrygun on it self isn't really the problem, but the sentryguns on the floor and on the roof and the opposing team. If you add all that together, its pretty danged near impossible to kill the sentry. Besides if you watch the dev commentary they specifically say that for being on the roof you should have a trade-off. Soldier and demoman loose health, the engineer doesn't loose anything and has a big advantage. He can even set up a teleporter, so that other classes can get up there as well.
Author:  Teddynator [ 30 Mar 2008, 21:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
but don't forget the snipers. They can give the engi a headshot and then destroy its sentry.
other then that, it need soo long to get that thing up and if you go B first, the engi shouldn't be able to build it in time. It isn't the players fault that it is able. If it would have been an exploit they would have fixed it, yet.
It is allowed and fair, too.
Author:  [SpA]Spikespiegel [ 30 Mar 2008, 21:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Teddynator wrote:
but don't forget the snipers. They can give the engi a headshot and then destroy its sentry.
other then that, it need soo long to get that thing up and if you go B first, the engi shouldn't be able to build it in time. It isn't the players fault that it is able. If it would have been an exploit they would have fixed it, yet.
It is allowed and fair, too.
First of all... if you HS the engineer, he will just use his teleporter to get back on the roof.


Second of all, it's not intended gameplay to get an SG on the roof, and thus it's an exploit.
Author:  The Reverend [ 31 Mar 2008, 03:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
If they didnt want you to build on the roof, Valve would have put the No engineer build entity on the roof. Or fixed it so you couldn't get up there in one of the many, many updates.
Author:  Crovax20 [ 31 Mar 2008, 12:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
The Reverend wrote:
If they didnt want you to build on the roof, Valve would have put the No engineer build entity on the roof. Or fixed it so you couldn't get up there in one of the many, many updates.
Like they fixed the map borderwalking after all these updates? Or the building turret below the level?

But seriously why would they specifically say, to get on the roof of the building, the soldier has to trade in health. So there is a fair trade-off, for getting into a better location. What trade off does the engineer have? Or any other class that uses the teleporter the engi set up.

And the sniper can't hit the engi, if he builds his turret right.. well not without getting instagibbed by all the rockets and grenades flying into his face.
Author:  Greasy_greabo [ 31 Mar 2008, 12:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Gotta agree on this one - Building on the roof is gonna be an exploit mainly because its very very very unfair - Common sense saves in these kind of situations.

Sure they havent "fixed" it but then again they still havent fixed the exploit on CP Well last point... just think to yourself when your placing your sentry -
A) how did I get here? easily? by jumping on scenery for 2 minutes? by using my dispenser as a boost onto it?
B) when built what chance do my opponent have of killing it? can a spy get near it? is it in line of sight?
C) Have people been called exploiters before for using it? Am I being called an exploiter?

Answer them to yourself and basically you'll know whether its an exploit.

P.S. Dustbowl stage 3 cap 1 - The Area where sentrys are built and spys cant get to - Doesnt cover the cap point or a major scope of area - Totally in the open - ROCCCKKKKITS!!!!!!!

:)
Author:  Teddynator [ 31 Mar 2008, 13:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
actually the point on last cp Well got fixed.(I was recently tryin' that but it didn'T work...it showed me: not allowed thingy.
Author:  [SpA]demm [ 31 Mar 2008, 15:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Teddy, I've already explained this to you, so I'm wondering why you still don't understand what's wrong with building there.

Valve has officially stated, that it was never intended for the engineer to be able to use his own buildings to get to places other classes can't get to. The fact that the engineer is blocked by his own buildings is meant to be a disadvantage for the engineer, so he can't escape enemy players by running through his own buildings, which they can't.
It was also stated that only soldiers and demomans should be able to get to the roof, and only with the tradeoff of loosing some health by doing so.

The same goes for the roof at C. I know it is possible to get there just by jumping, without the use of your buildings, but just look at the design of the map and ask yourself this question: did the level designer intend for you to be able to use a 1mm slim border as jump off point? The answer to this is 100% no.

So, if anybody does anything on the server, that was never intended by the developers to be possible, he will get warned and if he continues, he'll get a ban. Of course you can always argue about what was intended and what wasn't, since nobody of us works at Valve, but this interpretation is left to the server admins and not the players.

If you don't like this, instead of bitching around, you can always choose another server.



PS:
Also, you don't ever make bad jokes about server admins! SaintK spends alot of time and money on maintaining these servers and is praised too little for it. Bad jokes don't help at all.
Author:  Teddynator [ 31 Mar 2008, 15:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
The joke about saint wasn't serious and I respect saint for his effort in this community.
I will try to contact with someone of VALVe or ask in the steampowered forum. It's not like I don't believe that those spots are exploits but they are so easy to fix(I assume it). There were so many exploit and bug fixes and I know that VALVe isn't one of those trashy teams, that sell you a shitty game and never fix anything...
Why didn't they fix that, yet?
There must be a reason.
btw: there are aways things in games, that the producers haven't planned
And I am not the only one, who thinks that those places are no exploits :S...
Author:  [SpA]SaintK [ 31 Mar 2008, 15:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Teddynator wrote:
The joke about saint wasn't serious and I respect saint for his effort in this community.
I will try to contact with someone of VALVe or ask in the steampowered forum. It's not like I don't believe that those spots are exploits but they are so easy to fix(I assume it). There were so many exploit and bug fixes and I know that VALVe isn't one of those trashy teams, that sell you a shitty game and never fix anything...
Why didn't they fix that, yet?
There must be a reason.
btw: there are aways things in games, that the producers haven't planned
And I am not the only one, who thinks that those places are no exploits :S...

If you would only know how many server sided bug there are, you wouldn't wonder anymore why their not fixing it.. It's how VALVe works. They fix it whenever they feel like it.
Author:  Teddynator [ 31 Mar 2008, 16:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Ok. I have sent an e-mail to the support, through steampowered. I mentioned the exploit at cp A(that exploit spike mentioned) and I added the screenshot, too.
Let's see what they say :|
Author:  Teddynator [ 31 Mar 2008, 21:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Quote:
2 Message by Blake on Mon, 31st Mar 2008 10:59 am
Hello,

Thank you for your concern, we will investigate the issue.

Please let us know if you encounter any further difficulty - we will be happy to assist you.
what a prick...I guess this was a copy+paste answer...he didn't even answer my question...I hope that they at least fix that exploit at A...
Author:  DoC [ 31 Mar 2008, 21:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Teddynator wrote:
Quote:
2 Message by Blake on Mon, 31st Mar 2008 10:59 am
Hello,

Thank you for your concern, we will investigate the issue.

Please let us know if you encounter any further difficulty - we will be happy to assist you.
what a prick...I guess this was a copy+paste answer...he didn't even answer my question...I hope that they at least fix that exploit at A...
AHahahahhaahhaa :lol: :lol: :lol:
Author:  Teddynator [ 01 Apr 2008, 19:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Hahaha...wait: hahahaha...oh wait: hahahahaha...no...: mwhahahhaa :twisted: :twisted: ...
oh I feel so good..this made my day:)
I finally got my answer from the support, after saying that their answer did not help me.
So here it is:
Quote:
4 Message by Blake on Tue, 1st Apr 2008 7:09 am
Hey ****,

This is not a map exploit.

If you have any further issues feel free to contact us.
And no this is neither a fake nor an april joke. If you don't believe me I will give the admins the link.

Oh this is such a good news. I think it should be allowed now, shouldn't it?
And btw: VALVe is awesome :4
Author:  [SpA]Spikespiegel [ 02 Apr 2008, 15:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Teddynator wrote:
Quote:
4 Message by Blake on Tue, 1st Apr 2008 7:09 am
Hey ****,

This is not a map exploit.

If you have any further issues feel free to contact us.
Oh this is such a good news. I think it should be allowed now, shouldn't it?
No... It's still an exploit.
What you got there is yet another standardised "close eyes and randomly click screen" replies.

As long as it's considered an exploit by the server owner, it's not allowed, no matter what everyone else says. PERIOD.
Author:  [SpA]SaintK [ 02 Apr 2008, 15:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
This is odd, cause a mail from Alfred from VALVe software (a head dev) on the mailing lists stated it was an exploit.
Author:  Teddynator [ 02 Apr 2008, 16:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Quote:
Hey Deniz,

I just confirmed that it has been reported and being worked on by the development team.

Sorry for any confusion.
Well seems like they suck at support...what a prick!
Author:  Rushington [ 03 Apr 2008, 12:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Well. Atleast he de-pricked himself some.
On another note; I haven't seen the "Sentry under C"-exploit lately. Have they fixed it?
Author:  [SpA]SaintK [ 03 Apr 2008, 13:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Rushington wrote:
Well. Atleast he de-pricked himself some.
On another note; I haven't seen the "Sentry under C"-exploit lately. Have they fixed it?

I believe this bug was fixed a couple of updates back.
Author:  DoC [ 13 Apr 2008, 22:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Bug exploiter (Proof inside)
Is this allowed (look at the sentry)?
Image
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