For well known reasons discussed before, ctf_turbine has now been removed from the default mapcycle and will only be playable trough the spapoints plugin.

Wooohooo

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You'll Feel A Little Prick

Oh happy day!

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

Nooooes... Farewell the best custom map in TF2

I also liked that map very much - at least it is available via SpA Points...

Yeah, it was the only ctf-map where ppl actually tried to get the intel... I'm really sad about this decision

...and now we have to practise that map on some other servers for etf2l matches

bye bye best map in this game...
well a good reason to spend my spa points now

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Sebas the avenging zebra's sidekick! <3

PLUS ONE

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And there's still those few maps with horrible gameplay, and which are always emptying our servers

No need to mention them by name...

No worries - ctf_turbine will be available on the Custom Map Server - we will be enabling SpA-points buying on it soon and a new map cycle that alternates custom maps with standard ones is being uploaded onto it as we speak. :-D

P.S. Recently we filled the Custom Map Server with the cp_dustbowl and pl_goldrush combo. We had like 20+ players and they ALL stayed for dom_canalzone! Then I tried keeping the server filled with setting the next map to ctf_2fort... 3 players left on the server after several minutes when it came up. ^^
Just a funny anecdote because I was really surprised myself...

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

Turbine fans +1

Lim-Dul - sorry just to clarify - I assume you are saying that it will be in the map cycle and not just via SpA points on server 5?

Personally I think this part of L-D's master plan to populate server 5

Server 5 first then the world!

More reasons to avoid the server #5...

Turbine beats all other official ctf maps by a dozen kilometers.. sure 2fort fills the server quickly.. but that map wasn't removed (and it has at least twice as many reasons to get removed o;)

But we all know why this decision was made ^^

But every second map is custom and yes, turbine is in the map cycle by default. Har, har, har! :-D

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Was there a different turbine map in the cycle because I don't think that much of it

The intel rooms seem too close together so when someone grabs your intel they are probably out of your base by the time you hear the warning. They will probably have reached the front of their base by the time you can bring them down, and although a minor skirmish might take place, the opposing team can usually push back your intel defense long enough to finish the capture.

I know what goes for one team should apply to the other and maybe I've just had bad experiences, but my view of the map has always been that if one team is just a little more co-ordinated in offense then they can overrun the opposition much too easily.

That said, I think with a relatively low amount of development the map could be much improved. The kind of changes I would like to see are:
- An extra spawn point
- Extension of the central area
- Lighting changes to provide darkened areas
- One or two more natural choke points

I'm not the biggest fan of 2Fort by a long way, but I do think it has examples for some of the variation which is lacking here:
- Two spawn points
- A number of natural choke points (but which are still balance enough to reward a co-ordinated attack)
- Differences in texture and lighting (which help to provide cover for spies, snipers and pyros, among others)
- Routes from intel to capture point which are much less straight forward giving the opposing team at least some opportunity to mount a defense.

Turbine isn't the worst map I've played on, but I think it needs a bit of development to become more balanced for players across a wider range of skill levels.

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Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

We already had a long and fruitless discussion about ctf_turbine.

Its biggest flaw is that it is ugly and bland - even by custom map standards. I'm not a big fan of its gameplay either but I don't think it has that big gameplay issues - it's just a bit different from the other maps.

Not all maps have to be designed with clearly defined choke-points - while this concept still remains quite popular it was mainly the result of older engines being unable to render larger areas hence choke-points appeared naturally.

Some examples of non-choke-y maps include:

cp_well, cp_badlands and the recent pl_badwater (except for the last control points respectively) or cp_steel (or ctf_mach4 and cp_science2 if you want custom examples =) - you can clearly see that by looking at the heatmaps... The most deaths are shown on the control points themselves, not somewhere in-between. That way the game is more about territory control than blocking chokepoints. The same is true for ctf_turbine to a certain extent where control over the central area is absolutely crucial. However, the paths leading from this area to the intel room leave much to be desired as they absolutely lack any cover and offer huge advantages to the defending team which leads to immense turtling.

ctf_2fort is designed with chokepoints in mind since it's a very old map (12 years old, to be precise) - the central area is a place you need to get through but not something you need to control since any "encampment" (like with sentries etc.) will be destroyed in no time.
2fort's problem lies in too "tight" chokepoints (more or less one chokepoint as you can read from the heatmaps as well =) situated inside the bases which again leads to different issues but that has been discussed to death as well.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

I agree the map is bland, which makes me surprised it got picked up as an 'official' map, but I have a bigger problem with the gameplay than the textures.

I would have thought that in ctf, defined choke points would be a basic concept where you are looking for a more static defense as opposed to the flexible approach needed for territory capture. It feels like the raised part (accessible via dispenser jump) has been designed as the only choke (or mildly squeeze) point. Which means that the simplest route (read 'least turns'), has only something like 4 or 5 turns from one intel room to the other (cue Scout disappearing into the distance). I guess if choke points are an old fashioned thing then I have to admit to being an old fashioned kind of guy (or just old to all you teenagers out there)

I'd definitely agree with the bland an ugly view. Even the most basic map building tutorials I've been reading usually include a section on the different textures and building styles for Blu and Red, but this seems to have missed that concept and just has a copy and paste with a bit of recolouring. Don't get me wrong. I applaud the efficiency, but it must take a fair amount of effort to build a functioning map so it's a shame that someone stopped at this point and didn't make the most out of all their hard work

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Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.