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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

Custom maps vs. normal maps
How do you like custom maps in general?
In general, I thin kthat custom maps are quite shite. Most map makers have no clue what they are doing

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to your general feeling of custom maps, sub-par, on par, above par?
Way above par.

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to normal maps?
Some of the maps I actually enjoy playing more than any of the normal ones (With the exception of steel, which is my favourite map... and which started out on the custom map server )

Map rating
Please rate the maps below on a scale from 1 to 5, where 1 is if you hate the map, 5 is if you love the map (Please leave out maps you have no opinion about/have not played):
Amsterdam: 5
Aqua: 4
Canalzone: 3
Convoy: 2
Freight: 4
labor: 4
Mach4: 3 (Unfortunately, the map is a bit small for a big server like ours )
Redstone: 5
Science: 2
cp_castle4: 3
cp_corporation_b3: 3
cp_junction_v2: 5
ctf_chaos: 4
ctf_geothermal_b2: 2

Normal maps
What are your feelings on having normal maps in the rotation on the server?
I hate having normal maps on the server. Unfortuantely, it's a neccessity in order to fill the server. But if people want to play normal maps, they should play on servers 1 though 3. I join the server because I want to play custom maps, and thus I should not have to play normal maps every other map.

Improvement
How can we improve the server?
What would make you want to play more/exclusively on the server?
The reason I made this thread is because I don't know

Suggestions
Do you have any suggestions for new maps to add to the rotation?
I do, but I would like to see first if anyone else have the same suggestions first.

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

Custom maps vs. normal maps
How do you like custom maps in general?
I like'em. Some maps are even superior to Valve's. On the other side there are ofc lots of shitty custom maps.

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to your general feeling of custom maps, sub-par, on par, above par?
Way above par.

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to normal maps?
Depends on... dunno... Some maps are really cool and I love to have more variety on the maps.

Map rating
Please rate the maps below on a scale from 1 to 5, where 1 is if you hate the map, 5 is if you love the map (Please leave out maps you have no opinion about/have not played):
Amsterdam: -
Aqua: 2 (but I never played it with more than 5-6 players :/)
Canalzone: 4 (funny... but see Aqua)
Convoy: 1
Freight: -
labor: 5
Mach4: 3
Redstone: 4
Science: 5

Normal maps
What are your feelings on having normal maps in the rotation on the server?
Hmm... I personally would prefer a custom maps only server, but it seems that this isn't working (yet).

Improvement
How can we improve the server?
What would make you want to play more/exclusively on the server?
Propose free beer to all joining players! (dunno)

Suggestions
Do you have any suggestions for new maps to add to the rotation?
ctf_escherhaus

Thanks for the interview and have a nice day!

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SaintK: I'm completely lost

Custom maps vs. normal maps
How do you like custom maps in general?
In general, I have to say I like them. On the other hand, the quality varies a lot.

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to your general feeling of custom maps, sub-par, on par, above par?
Above par.

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to normal maps?
IMO, the quality of the custom maps in the rotations on our servers is fairly equal to the quality of the standard maps.

Map rating
Please rate the maps below on a scale from 1 to 5, where 1 is if you hate the map, 5 is if you love the map (Please leave out maps you have no opinion about/have not played):
Amsterdam: -
Aqua: -
Canalzone: 2 (I don't quite understand the game mode. Whenever I've played it, people have been running around randomly trying to cap points along the way, it seems...)
Convoy: -
Freight: -
Labor: 5
Mach4: 4 (I agree with Spikespiegel, it is a bit too tiny for two full teams. Still brings a lot of fun, though.)
Redstone: -
Science: 2

Normal maps
What are your feelings on having normal maps in the rotation on the server?
I like the normal maps, I say keep them, on the regular servers ([All Maps] #1-3) at least!

Improvement
How can we improve the server?
What would make you want to play more/exclusively on the server?
I don't have any ideas right now, and I already play (almost) exclusively on the SpA servers, so...

Suggestions
Do you have any suggestions for new maps to add to the rotation?
No.

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function printSig(){ print "Code is poetry!"; return true; }

Custom maps vs. normal maps
How do you like custom maps in general?
No more and no less than normal maps - there are awesome maps and real stinkers. The only reason I like custom maps is because they add something fresh to the gameplay and I like variety instead of having to play the same maps over and over again. Basically custom maps have a larger variance in quality as well - bad custom maps are worse than your worst nightmare but good custom maps can transcend standard ones because Valve had to follow the safe design principle and couldn't introduce new concepts purely on a hit-and-miss basis. They do so NOW with their awesome "community map" program but it's no hit-and-miss - they take the ones that players recommend. ^^

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to your general feeling of custom maps, sub-par, on par, above par?
Above par - I didn't know that the TF2 mapping scene would become so vivid and include so many bold concepts in map designs.

How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to normal maps?
Using the same terminology: they're "on par" in my eyes.

Map rating
One word in advance: we have a rating plugin running on the server but it's pretty useless because so few people voted - especially now that the respective ad explaining the command has been removed...
Nevertheless you can view everything here even though the sample is a bit to small to pass any kind of judgement:

http://www.specialattack.net/content/cu ... er-ratings

Please rate the maps below on a scale from 1 to 5, where 1 is if you hate the map, 5 is if you love the map (Please leave out maps you have no opinion about/have not played):

cp_amsterdam_b1: 3 (current state, potentially 4)
cp_aqua: 5
dom_canalzone: 5 (with 16+ players), 3 otherwise
ctf_convoy_v2: 3 (I used to like it before we had a custom map server ^^)
cp_freight_b3: 5
cp_labor: 4
ctf_mach4: 5 (actually in my eyes the number of players doesn't matter)
cp_redstone_b2: 2 (current state - could become a 5 with a major redesign)
cp_science2: 5
cp_castle4: 3
cp_corporation_b3: 4
cp_junction_v2: 4
ctf_chaos: 4
ctf_geothermal_b2: 5

Normal maps
What are your feelings on having normal maps in the rotation on the server?
Indeed I thought that adding normal maps to the rotation was only a necessity in the beginning but now I think that's the way it should be, hell, I wouldn't want to go back. The argument against them, "I want to only play custom maps on this server and play standard maps on another", is very risky since you don't want to FORCE people to switch servers all the time just because they want to see a standard and/or custom map. It works fine for arena maps because it's a completely different gameplay mode - custom maps do not offer different gameplay, just more content. We introduced the new MC by popular demand - even players who liked our custom maps remarked that they'd like to see some standard ones as well - why go against the wind? The server still has trouble filling up INITIALLY (that is, the first 1-3 crucial players) but then can stay full throughout the whole day - there aren't even any discernible "black holes" where players start leaving (unless *somebody* is buying five custom maps in a row :-P). I don't see why we should take AWAY content from the players especially since the whole idea behind custom maps is ADDING content. Another thing is - I simply like hanging around on the Custom Map Server and the current MC allows me to play all kinds of maps on it. ^^

Improvement
How can we improve the server?
Reorder the normal maps in the map cycle. I added them to it a bit too hastily. This survey could improve things (thanks Spike!) since we will know which custom maps to pair with which standards...

What would make you want to play more/exclusively on the server?
Ha, ha - well, I'm already playing exclusively on it so this isn't directed at me. ^^
By the way - my observation is that the server REALLY does fill up in no time when a few people appear on it. Please, don't be afraid to join the server and PLAY on it (not idle, although idling helps a bit as well) for around 5 minutes or so - be patient, people WILL start joining.
I don't think that the relative lack of popularity is in ANY way connected to our map choices etc. - people (as in: the general public that could play TF2 on pl_goldrush 24/7 servers) simply don't join a server that has "Custom" in its title. I mean - we have a spin-up of pl_goldrush and cp_dustbowl - whatever your opinion about these maps the average player LOVES them. You see Servers #1-3 filled to the brim and the custom map server running the VERY SAME standard map that is on the other servers standing around empty... It's directly connected to the post SaintK made a while ago in which he stated that people are just hammering the "join" button on Server #1. This is also why I proposed changing the server names to PROPER names without numbers - people always want to feel as if they're "#1"... Also, the "gameplay mode" featured on the server is too prominent. All SpA members know the server layout so we should use "dirty tricks" to lure them onto less popular servers - my proposal was to rename ALL servers to a "SpecialAttack.net <unique server name> [<gameplay features>]" scheme. Nobody would complain - once people join they usually stay - they can always switch to another server anyway - the main problem is getting them onto the server.

Suggestions
Do you have any suggestions for new maps to add to the rotation?
I checked out ctf_escherhaus quite a while ago and it's indeed a very good map and not too "Escheresque" (otherwise it'd be unplayable :-P).
I still like ccp_circlejerk_rc1 and it was quite popular during the Custom Map Weekend. However, it plays better on a full server. We had some fun on ctf_quarry_v2 with server regulars back in the day but it's still waiting for a minor redesign (which would include more ammo boxes and more healthpacks).

Anything else?
Please, please, Spike - I know what you think about normal maps on the server but when you join PLEASE stop buying exclusively custom ones... No matter what you and I feel or think it empties the server and ALWAYS WILL empty the server. It's basically not in the "server administration" department anymore but in "public relations". The server, although instated upon your request, Spike, is not only for you (unless you want to run around on an empty server which I did for hours at a time when we ran exclusively customs)... Treat the players as customers - you can't drop them straight into unfamiliar territory with a "revolutionary product" however good it may seem. Bait them with something they know and they will stay.
E.g. look at the attitude of some SpA members (without dropping any names) who say that "they don't like custom maps" (in general). Considering the quality of most maps we have on the server they are indiscernible from normal ones when it comes to the looks, polish etc. but some people can't be bothered to check them out... When Valve makes them suddenly "official" they suddenly change their opinion even though they're still the very same maps... 0_o

Also, we should promote the Map Pack more actively. I know that the site is undergoing a major overhaul but I don't think that adding e.g. a download section on THIS version of the site would be a problem - I can create a content page in no time at all. ^^
The reason for that is that even many of our members are completely oblivious to the map pack and are put off by download times (which I can understand - you have to wait for the server to fill, you have to wait to download a map - "Fuck it, I'm joining Server #1-3"... ;-).

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

Thanks for adding the maps I left out, Lim. I knowwe have a seperate maprating system, the problem is, however, that it is hard to differentiate between serious votes, and votes cast in frustration.

And no, I will not stop buying a "nextmap" custom map. My playtimeoverthe day is very limited, and if I feel like playing custom maps, I don't want to bother with normal maps. Ofcourse, if the server empties, I don't mind playing a normal map to fill it up, but as long as there are still plenty of players online, I don't see why I should not set a custom map as nextmap.

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

+ 2

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[SpA]Revenge "Wheres the element of surpise :/"

[SpA]Mint "IN.... MY....PANTS"

[SpA]Minimoose "Revenge is going to jump out of your pants?"

Yeah well - the problem is that you didn't stay long enough to see the server get empty after a streak of custom maps. ;-)
I think we have two different goals in mind, Spike - you want to have a nice server you can play on after hours (and only for a couple of rounds) and I want the server to be popular 24/7 even if we aren't playing on it. I guess if you want to buy custom maps for your SpA points then so be it since you're not online all the time. ^^

I believe we should simply have more custom maps to choose from on the main servers since players like you and me join the custom map server to play these (that is: the maps that are unavailable). Considering that cp_steel is not a custom map anymore wouldn't it be time to put another quality custom map up on the main servers? We have enough of these to choose from on the Custom Map Server and all of them were obviously tested quite thoroughly.

Why do I think this would be a good idea? Because it's easier to introduce players to custom maps one at a time. The main servers are almost always full and wouldn't get empty even if we "forced" players to download a map by buying it with SpA points. Perhaps some of them would get to like it and join to play it on the Custom Map Server.

In an ideal configuration, methinks, the main servers and the custom map server would mirror each other. That is, normal servers = only normal maps with MANY custom maps in the SpA points option (basically the ones that are available on the custom map server) and the Custom Map Server = only custom maps with ALL the normal maps to choose from in the SpA points plugin.

I already talked with SaintK about the possibility to modify the SpA points menu a bit so it would be easier to distinguish between custom and normal maps and hence maps that cost 20 and 30 SpA points. This would also reduce the need to click through the menu for hours to find the right map.

The current SpA points menu looks like this:

Set next map -> huge ass list of maps, not very ordered

My proposition would look like this:

Set next map -> 1. Standard maps (20 points) 2. Custom maps (30 points) -> alphabetically sorted list of normal/custom maps

Of course the reverse amount of points would be true for the custom map server. IF we did it that way we could truly make a Custom Map Only server popular since players would come over to play on it after learning about certain maps on the main servers AND not having to download them again.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

mach4 1

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slurper

Ha, ha - yep, you're showing great respect to Spikespiegel after he compiled this extensive survey. -.-

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

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<@Howard_s> usa just has a made up economy - they can't really go broke

JuncoPartner: I could barely hold it up for long.

sorry i can't give any help the that big list.

The only reason i avoid the custom maps server, is because only time TF2 has crashed is on custom maps!

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Computer is fixed. That is all.

Certainly not on the hand-picked awesome ones we put on the server. :-D
Are you running mat_queue_mode 2 by any chance?

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

We had quite a big argument last night on server #1 about lack of maps such as steel and both well's with 2fort staying in mapcycle. 8 maps is not much, and people dont seem to change very often, I agree with Brinkmann that we can change map anyway with spapoints, but that doesnt cancel nextmap, so you always end playing 2fort anyway Also map prices are a bit steap imho, i play a lot here and have about 60-100 points and I only change 2-3 maps a week.

The SpA points are origionally ment for donators, that normal player have access to them is a gift, hence they won't be able to change stuff as much as donators.

Because of some silly bug now we run under windows our day/nigh mapcycle system doesn't work, and the servers only run 'night' now. This will be fixed as soon as the new server is in the datacenter (prolly this weekend).

Good to know, i was starting to worry that server is gonna change into goldrush/dustbowl marathon cheers

I've bought the two new maps yesterday as I wanted to give them a try. While freight went on allright, junction was just bad. People complained about it, some left and I think it's for a good reason. It might be a great map when just a few people are playing it, but when it's 26 people it's a chocked up spamfest. :s

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Comfortably Numb

2vs2 is fun on junction, havent even tried it with more people.

Junction works till about 8 on 8, map is too small for more players. Every custom map empties the server by about 30-50%

Well, steel, labour and freight are doing awesome. The feedback I was trying to give was that people did download the map and played it but it was not enjoyable in any way.

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Comfortably Numb

I wouldn't be surprised if freight and labor would make it into the next tf2 update~

To get some real map feedback you need a couple more rounds. However, I agree that too many players on junction may be a problem, especially on the 30 slot server...

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

That would be for the win!

Yup every single time

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Castle4 for the win.... it NEVER empties the server since it's so popular, and it's the bestest map out there ever..: EVER!!

I vote for castle4 in the mapcycle

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[SpA]Revenge "Wheres the element of surpise :/"

[SpA]Mint "IN.... MY....PANTS"

[SpA]Minimoose "Revenge is going to jump out of your pants?"

Lets hope that any community maps will appear in next update To bad that tc_meridian wasnt developer more than b2 version, it was the best looking map for tf2 and it was territory control but with intel capping not control points, it needed more tweaking and some changes but i see Schmitz gave up :/

He gave up because they needed Valve to fix some things in TF2 for mappers - e.g. the fact that the intelligence overlay wasn't showing or that the torch particle effects didn't load wasn't the mappers' fault... There's still hope that Valve will do something about it before the next class pack.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

Well, if first post is still up-to-date:

Custom maps vs. normal maps
- How do you like custom maps in general?
I like custom maps when they are made nicely. It's always nice to play on something new.
- How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to your general feeling of custom maps, sub-par, on par, above par?
On par.
- How do you like the custom maps in the map rotation compared to normal maps?
On par.

Map rating
Amsterdam: -
Aqua: 3 (really nice made, but a bit boring when you play it for a longer time)
Canalzone: -
Convoy: -
Freight: -
labor: 5 (awesome )
Mach4: 4 (that map is pretty good for small teams, I really don't enjoy, when it's on servers with bigger teams)
Redstone: -
Science: 2 (boring...)
cp_castle4: 5 (really awesome, I don't know why people don't like this map. It's ideal for bigger teams)
cp_corporation_b3
cp_junction_v2
ctf_chaos
ctf_geothermal_b2: 3 (I don't like it, but IMO it's more fun than science)

Normal maps
- What are your feelings on having normal maps in the rotation on the server?
There are so many awesome custom maps. We don't need normal maps. I think, that you can do, that normal maps can be accessible through SpA-Points (30 points for normal map, 20 for custom; only on this server of course).

Improvement
- How can we improve the server?
Like I said above, give SpA-Points with changed prices of the maps: 30 for normal map, 20 for custom. It would be fair enough, when you compare this to prices on server with normal maps.
- What would make you want to play more/exclusively on the server?
So, I will play on it, when there will be people on this server. I really enjoy custom maps, but I didn't enjoy SpA Custom Maps Server which was few months ago, because there always were 2 or 3 players, from which 1 was spectator, and this number haven't grown up. At the beggining, SpA players could fill it, to make it more popular (I mean higher position in lobby). Or, to make it popular, you can do, that players which plays there will get 5 SpA Points every 30 minutes, for a week or a bit longer.
Another thing, is that you could add regularly some new maps to not to make this server boring.

Suggestions
- ctf_aerospace (one of the best custom ctf_ maps which I ever seen. It would be a bit improved, for example there should be a shorter way between intels, but that's not very important I think)
- pl_dustbowl (pretty good idea, just <3 it)
- pl_grassandcave (I really like design of this map, but unfortunately, it's still uncomplete , but when it will come out of alpha stage, you can try this)
- cp_bedroom3 (pretty fun map)
- cp_warpath2 (when you play it for first, second and third time, it looks like a boring map, but when you know all places on this map, it's pretty cool to play)


Sorry, that I disturbed the discussion, but I really wanted to answer this

I have to second this !

Get rid of Goldrush and Steel

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Winner of Public SpA Soldier 1v1 Cup! Rawr!