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No crits?
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=3883		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  MikeDH [ 27 Sep 2008, 08:54 ]
Post subject:  No crits?
I did a quick search and couldn't see anything on this.

Crits frustrate me, since they're so random, i think in clan matches they turn them off?

There are a lot of no crit servers why didn't/doesn't SpA have one of their servers a no crit "hardcore" server? I'd live in it. If it worked.

Crits from backburner from behind, end of round, stuff like that i don't have an issue with, but the randomn scout crit at 50 yards when i'm dominating him makes me die inside.

Does anyone else dislike crits? or is it just me?

I suppose sometimes they make the game interesting, like crit demo grenades, mmmm.
Author:  katonczyk [ 27 Sep 2008, 09:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
I like crits. As the probability rises with points streaks it's often "rampage mode-on" thing. Love it :)
Author:  [SpA]Noxious [ 27 Sep 2008, 10:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Most of the time I don't like crits. Especially that base 5% crit chance. If someone does good he deserves to have more crit chance. But coming out of the spawn and your 1st shot is crit that's lame :roll:
Author:  [SpA]9mmNL [ 27 Sep 2008, 11:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
We ran a no-crit server which basicly just didn't got used ..

And crits are just a part of the game, I like them very much. Always nice to see a rocket slowly penetrating a group of enemies and cause a bloody mess :D
Author:  needy [ 27 Sep 2008, 12:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Crits sucks, and because of them i had to reduce my public playing. That just feels so irritating to play on public/crit servers after you have played couple of matches without crits. I still think that crits don't belong to a competitive game like TF2.
Author:  [SpA]Repel [ 27 Sep 2008, 13:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Crits make the game fun, it means that you don't have to be a total pro to get kills which makes the game alot less stressful for new players.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 14:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
LOL! "Competitive game like TF2"? "Competitive game like Peggle." ^^
Newsflash - TF2 is NOT primarily targeted at hardcore gamers and thank God it isn't - this is why it became so popular while other shooters came and went. If you mean "competitive" as in "you try to be the topscorer" then crits shouldn't bother you since the base chance of 5% means that on average it won't impact your "pwning" too much.
Hardcore gamers can play clanwars with crits turned off but no crits do NOT belong on a public server, IMHO, since removing them changes the game mechanics quite a lot. Many pushes are started by some lucky crit that manage to take out e.g. an engineer guarding a sentry... Needless' argument kinda confirms that because thanks to crits no single player can dominate the whole playing field like he could for example in Counter-Strike - there's always a chance you'll get him with a crit. ^^
Treating FFA too seriously will only make you angry when something goes wrong anyway. =)

Hence my answer: I both like crits and no-crits - there's a place and time for everything. I wouldn't like FFA so much without crits and clanwars would make no sense with them. =)

P.S. I think you can just as well go to the Steam forums and add this topic to the thousands of others that are precisely like it - this is by no means a new discussion and it has been talked into the ground. No, Valve will not remove crits by default, opinions about crits are split AND I don't think there will be another nocrit server which turned out to be a major flop...
Author:  needy [ 27 Sep 2008, 14:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
LOL! "Competitive game like TF2"? "Competitive game like Peggle." ^^
Newsflash - TF2 is NOT primarily targeted at hardcore gamers and thank God it isn't - this is why it became so popular while other shooters came and went. If you mean "competitive" as in "you try to be the topscorer" then crits shouldn't bother you since the base chance of 5% means that on average it won't impact your "pwning" too much.)
I know that TF2 wasn't targeted for hardcore gamers, and i don't count myself to them either. With competitive game i meant skill based game which is played in competitive environment. And i don't care about those scores, that is just annoying when you got killed by someone's "lucky" shot, because crits are so powerful that you can't do nothing to prevent them to kill you from the close range (for example those crit rockets)...

Crits are going to stay, no-one can't do anything for it, but that doesn't mean that i would have to like them :?

ps. When you get killed 7 times in a row because of crit rocket, you will learn to hate them...
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 14:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Never happened to me, needless. =)
Unless crit rockets are the only way to kill you - then you should be proud of myself and from my and a less-skilled player's perspective you couldn't be stopped otherwise and that would make the game more frustrating. ^^
Also keep in mind how many kills YOUR crit rockets have caused.

I don't get angry at crits - I find them funny. You play, you die... That's the way it goes.
Remember Counter-Strike with headshots - true, you got a degree of control over them but given the spread of some guns and some newbies that aimed for another part of your body they worked just like crits. And you had to sit out a whole round if you were on the receiving end of one. =)

P.S. Considering your rank and K:D ratio I really don't think you should be complaining, needless. ^^
Author:  needy [ 27 Sep 2008, 15:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Never happened to me, needless. =)
Unless crit rockets are the only way to kill you - then you should be proud of myself and from my and a less-skilled player's perspective you couldn't be stopped otherwise and that would make the game more frustrating. ^^
Also keep in mind how many kills YOUR crit rockets have caused.
That have happened to me quite many times, and i meant that i got killed in a row by those 7 crit rockets without shooting a single shot by myself. I just came out of a spawn, walked around a corner and 'BOOM' crit rocket kills me... That was pretty annoying :mrgreen:

Yeah, i know that my crits have done some damage as well, but i still feel kinda bad everytime my crit rocket kills someone :|

I wasn't complaining at first, i just told my opinion for this topic. Personally i won't open a discussion of crits, because they are here to stay... Someone likes them and someone don't like them. That's just how it goes. I just belong to that last mentioned group.
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Remember Counter-Strike with headshots - true, you got a degree of control over them but given the spread of some guns and some newbies that aimed for another part of your body they worked just like crits. And you had to sit out a whole round if you were on the receiving end of one. =)
Never played Counter and never will :18
Author:  BoldBald [ 27 Sep 2008, 15:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
I like crits.... You see a lonely heavy shooting a pyro...pyro gets killed and heavy just keeps shooting something...you see when your critical nade rolls under heavy...and BOOOM!
Author:  DrMcMoist [ 27 Sep 2008, 15:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
nahkarankaisija wrote:
I like crits.... You see a lonely heavy shooting a pyro...pyro gets killed and heavy just keeps shooting something...you see when your critical nade rolls under heavy...and BOOOM!
That wouldn't be me.

I destroy lonely Heavies with the old Spin N' Toast.
Author:  [SpA]Kaz [ 27 Sep 2008, 15:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
crits are not based on randomness. the better you are doing, the more chances you have of getting a critic. and I believe this is a quote "the better you are doing, the more changes you have of continuing to doing well" the critics where designed to give some sort of edge at specific moments of a game. if your team finally breaks throught the defence lets say on the last capture point (after killing loads of enemies) the goal is to reward the players that broke the defence. since its probably not the best time to go back and heal, you would hardly ever get a change against an enemy, since players would sequencly be coming out of the spawn with full health and ammo.
I personally dont get irritated against crits. I'm not really worried about my rank or my death/kill ratio, as you can see by the embarrasing stats under my avatar.
but I do think that crits can sort of change the flow of the game, making it so you would have to change your strategy.

if you take some time to see the developer's comentarys you will hear something aproximated to what I said above. It makes sense in my head and I can see the porpouse of it. the game is caricatured and exagerated in every aspect. from graphics to gameplay, including differences between classes. the crits are just a prolongation of that. we are to complain about that, then we would have to complain about the backstabb, or the melee weapons, or how fucking slow the soldier is.
Author:  katonczyk [ 27 Sep 2008, 16:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Kaz wrote:
(...)
+1
Author:  Crovax20 [ 27 Sep 2008, 16:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
katonczyk wrote:
[SpA]Kaz wrote:
(...)
+1
First of all there is a 5% base chance
I don't like crits either, but not because of crits in general. I don't like crit rockets, crit stickies, crit pipebombs.

How many times are you going to die by bullet crits compared to one of these? With bullet crits you usually have a time window to get the fuck out of there, and you can see them coming quite well because the guy was usually already firing. With rockets, pipebombs, stickies the instant damage is so high it leaves you staring at the bloodsmirk on the floor.

The amount of times I got a drop on some soldier and was sure of a kill and then have him turn around and insta pwn me with a crit rocket .... I lost count. Crits just feel like the game is cheating you out of your far superior starting position.

So, I only have a gripe against crit rockets, stickies and pipebombs because their damage potential is FAR bigger than other weapons.
Author:  [SpA]cookye [ 27 Sep 2008, 16:31 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
the worst part of the game imo :roll:
Author:  [SpA]Repel [ 27 Sep 2008, 17:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
I'm not really bothered by crits, though it gets annoying when a soldier manages to get 3 crit rockets in a row. :roll:
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 17:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Quote:
I'm not really bothered by crits, though it gets annoying when a soldier manages to get 3 crit rockets in a row.
Yeah well - always remember that crits work to YOUR advantage as well and the next time YOU could be the soldier shooting three crit rockets. :-D
Also, if he's shooting three crit rockets in a row then he probably is on a killing spree (like Kaz explained) so it's even more rewarding and fair for him to get some. ^^

My opinion is that crits simply wake emotions: bad when you get hit by them and good when you're the one doing the killing. Since gaming is all abut emotions for me, I don't see anything wrong with it - just adds to the experience. =)
Author:  dckjns [ 27 Sep 2008, 18:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Remember Counter-Strike with headshots - true, you got a degree of control over them but given the spread of some guns and some newbies that aimed for another part of your body they worked just like crits. And you had to sit out a whole round if you were on the receiving end of one. =)
Danger. You are comparing crits to headshots.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 18:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Yeah, so? Do you want to argue that the former require no skill while the latter do? Like we said - your crit chance increases when you are on a killing spree and a headshot by a kiddie spraying with the AK47 over half a map couldn't exactly be called "skillful" now, could it? =)
Author:  dckjns [ 27 Sep 2008, 18:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Yeah, so? Do you want to argue that the former require no skill while the latter do? Like we said - your crit chance increases when you are on a killing spree and a headshot by a kiddie spraying with the AK47 over half a map couldn't exactly be called "skillful" now, could it? =)
Crits trigger at random, headshots do not. Whether or not your shot actually hits the target is either based on skill or luck.

EDIT: Spelling. Typo (obviously all headshots hit their targets)
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 18:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Again, so what? From the victim's perspective it's all the same - you end up dead, sometimes by pure chance, no matter how the underlying mechanism works. ;-)
It's just a question of where the randomness kicks in. In TF2 the randomness simply triggers arbitrarily, in CS headshots can trigger by (chance based) bullet spread, random player movements etc. by player skill as well, of course but I believe that AT LEAST 5% of the headshots in CS are random (it's an informed guess - I've been playing the game for like 8 years =) so in the end it's pretty much the same thing.
Author:  Crovax20 [ 27 Sep 2008, 18:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Again, so what? From the victim's perspective it's all the same - you end up dead, sometimes by pure chance, no matter how the underlying mechanism works. ;-)
Lim-dul, seriously you are comparing a very very very low chance of getting a lucky headshot by spraying (and giving your location away etc) with the base chance of crits.

Yes it is annoying, but its a valid tactic the army got this gun they call a LMG its supposed to spray and pray... pour out bullets so that the enemy doesn't show their heads, and if they do they are risking their head blown off. Anyhow, at the moment you start comparing counterstrike to TF2 you fail.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 18:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Quote:
Lim-dul, seriously you are comparing a very very very low chance of getting a lucky headshot by spraying (and giving your location away etc) with the base chance of crits.
Not only spraying. Somebody surprises you by popping up behind you and you do some twitch-reflex kind of movement without even knowing where you're getting hit from and you get a headshot. I don't know about other countries but this randomness of headshots was duly noted in the Polish CS community (and mind you, it is a vivid community), so much so that a specialized term "headshot z dupy" (headshot pulled out of the ass OR in its second meaning, a headshot pulled off while aiming at one's ass) was coined. =)
Quote:
Yes it is annoying, but its a valid tactic the army got this gun they call a LMG its supposed to spray and pray.
I'm not talking about spraying as a valid tactic (like the HeatoN Spray) - I'm talking about situations like the one described above.
Quote:
Anyhow, at the moment you start comparing counterstrike to TF2 you fail.
I'm comparing FPS mechanics in general while using CS as an example (because I assume everybody knows what game I'm talking about - I could talk about The Mark and headshots ;-). There are several of them and while CS follows one, TF2 follows another. The only games I can think of that (mostly) do not feature any chance-based element are Quake-like, non-tactical shooters which is also why they are so popular in 1on1 duels where you can guarantee that the more skilled, not the more lucky player will win.
Author:  [SpA]Repel [ 27 Sep 2008, 18:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Yeah, so? Do you want to argue that the former require no skill while the latter do? Like we said - your crit chance increases when you are on a killing spree and a headshot by a kiddie spraying with the AK47 over half a map couldn't exactly be called "skillful" now, could it? =)
In CSS that doesn't really work because of the recoil when you fire, saying that the chances of getting a critical and a kid holding down the primary fire button and getting a random headshot are the same is just silly. :)
Author:  Crovax20 [ 27 Sep 2008, 19:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Repel wrote:
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Yeah, so? Do you want to argue that the former require no skill while the latter do? Like we said - your crit chance increases when you are on a killing spree and a headshot by a kiddie spraying with the AK47 over half a map couldn't exactly be called "skillful" now, could it? =)
In CSS that doesn't really work because of the recoil when you fire, saying that the chances of getting a critical and a kid holding down the primary fire button and getting a random headshot are the same is just silly. :)
Don't even bother, its better to just stonewall him because he is going to argue till he dies.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 19:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Quote:
Don't even bother, its better to just stonewall him because he is going to argue till he dies.
I didn't know you were talking about yourself in third person. ^^
Author:  [SpA]Repel [ 27 Sep 2008, 19:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Quote:
Don't even bother, its better to just stonewall him because he is going to argue till he dies.
I didn't know you were talking about yourself in third person. ^^

Does this mean I win? :4
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 27 Sep 2008, 19:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
Yeah, here's a cookie. ^^

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P.S. Discussions aren't about winning (unless you're talking about debates) - they're about presenting your point of view and backing it up with arguments which we both did - now any undecided reader can pick the more convincing side him/herself. I feel that I presented my point of view and enough arguments so that I have nothing else to say - ironically Crovax helped me realize that while trying to insult me.
Thanks, Crovax, nobody's a better cock-blocker than you! ^^
Author:  [SpA]Repel [ 27 Sep 2008, 19:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: No crits?
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Yeah, here's a cookie. ^^

Image

P.S. Discussions aren't about winning (unless you're talking about debates) - they're about presenting your point of view and backing it up with arguments which we both did - now any undecided reader can pick the more convincing side him/herself. I feel that I presented my point of view and enough arguments so that I have nothing else to say - ironically Crovax helped me realize that while trying to insult me.
Thanks, Crovax, nobody's a better cock-blocker than you! ^^


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