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new server idea
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=4482		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Sarge [ 22 Dec 2008, 14:41 ]
Post subject:  new server idea
hi guys i been thinking if we all just donate some money to buy a new server for map testig only it would be great then we could test out maps before putting them on the main servers i hope everybody thinks the same as me well i,l read u,r posts real soon


with love and respect : [SpA] Sarge
Author:  [SpA]SaintK [ 22 Dec 2008, 14:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
We currently have plenty of hardware space left to facilitate this. I personally just don't have the time to arrange map testing etc. If your intrested to take on the job, throw me a message next week when i am back from holiday!
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
As to map testing (TF2) - we have a whole pack of quality maps that have been tested for like like half a year on the custom map server. Yet my suggestions to put some of them onto the main servers in the SpA point menu are falling on deaf ears or are simply being ignored. :-\

Here's the content of the last version of the SpA Custom Map Pack I compiled for the now defunct Custom Map Server (it's still available so that at least some people download it off the site instead of the servers):

arena_mach (not applicable)
cp_aqua
cp_castle4 (already in the menu)
cp_corporation_b3
cp_freight_b3 (now cp_freight)
cp_junction_v2
cp_labor (already in the menu)
cp_redstone_b2
cp_science2
ctf_chaos
ctf_convoy_v2 (already in the menu)
ctf_geothermal_b2
ctf_mach4 (already in the menu)
dom_canalzone
Author:  [SpA]Cpt.Awesome [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
freight should be on the servers for sure. it's even a league map and its fucking ownage =] <3

and convoy should be banned, its the biggest fail map ever and if you want the server empty, buy that map =]
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
I like convoy but I agree that virtually any of the other maps in the map pack are better than it. =)
They were hand-picked by Spike and me and put through extreme stress tests during a custom map weekend and the map cycle on the custom map server. The pack went through several iterations eliminating buggy or bad maps as well. This was a while ago so while all of the above maps are quite awesome some new ones are bound to have appeared.
Author:  [SpA]Mr.green [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
As to map testing (TF2) - we have a whole pack of quality maps that have been tested for like like half a year on the custom map server. Yet my suggestions to put some of them onto the main servers in the SpA point menu are falling on deaf ears or are simply being ignored. :-\

Here's the content of the last version of the SpA Custom Map Pack I compiled for the now defunct Custom Map Server (it's still available so that at least some people download it off the site instead of the servers):

arena_mach (not applicable)
cp_aqua
cp_castle4 (already in the menu)
cp_corporation_b3
cp_freight_b3 (now cp_freight)
cp_junction_v2
cp_labor (already in the menu)
cp_redstone_b2
cp_science2
ctf_chaos
ctf_convoy_v2 (already in the menu)
ctf_geothermal_b2
ctf_mach4 (already in the menu)
dom_canalzone
yes we need more custom maps to select throught the SpA points :mrgreen:
Author:  [SpA]SaintK [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
most maps in your list simply do not meet the TF2 standards and for that reason won't ever be intergrated in the mapcycle nor spa points.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:40 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Yo - perhaps this is the right time to post one suggestion concerning the menu again (now that demm is around this should be solved in a flash):

When/if we include more maps in the menu, a new "layer" should be coded into it to sort the maps more clearly and make finding the right map more easier.

Since we have different costs for custom and standard maps you should get another sub-menu when choosing the "set next map" option: 1. Standard Maps (20 pts) 2. Custom Maps (30 pts)

Then the respective map lists would follow, sorted alphabetically. This would require one more key press from the players but at the same time reduce the need to scroll (click) through the map lists by half.
Quote:
most maps in your list simply do not meet the TF2 standards and for that reason won't ever be intergrated in the mapcycle nor spa points.
Heh? Which maps don't meet TF2 standards? Have you played on them at all, because I don't remember you sticking around the custom map server too much. Of all the custom maps these are precisely the ones that are the closest to TF2 standards - good layouts, no gameplay bugs and lots of detail. Look them up on FPSbanana.

Of the map list the most controversial ones would be ctf_convoy, cp_castle and ctf_chaos, which have a non-TF2 theme and yet two of them are ironically already in the SpA points menu. dom_canalzone was our test-map, so I'm not really suggesting it (just like arena_mach) - I just copy and pasted the contents of the map pack.

cp_aqua
cp_corporation_b3
cp_freight
cp_junction_v2
cp_redstone_b2
cp_science2
ctf_geothermal_b2

Are among the highest rated maps on FPSbanana and regular Custom Map Server attendees will confirm their awesomeness.
Author:  Bartg [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Lim lets face it, most Spa member dont like custom maps and the ultimate custom maps pack wont help the case ;)
Author:  Crovax20 [ 22 Dec 2008, 16:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Only freight would be worth it tbh
Author:  dckjns [ 22 Dec 2008, 17:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
I wish that someone would take the initiative to create a rats-style map that is actually good. I imagine it would be awesome in conjunction with Team Fortress 2.

And yes, I know that there are a bunch of them out there, but they all suck. More or less (crap texturing, lighting, gameplay).
Author:  Bartg [ 22 Dec 2008, 17:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Try cp_bedrooms, I quite like it - hiding in the grass and blocking doors with monster skate boards and WII controllers is bloody fun :mrgreen:
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 22 Dec 2008, 18:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Rats-style maps, hmmm, if anything doesn't meet our quality requirements then it's rats-style maps...

Anyways - back on topic of testing proper TF2 maps.

Saint - I don't want to argue with you again but if you don't want to put certain maps onto the servers then just say "because I say so" and don't evade the answer with made-up and mis-informed arguments. It's simply rude. Spike and I worked our asses off on the Custom Map Server, involving evaluating community feedback, exactly for the very reason to make sure that everything passes strict quality standards and the maps listed in the last post have been tested more thoroughly and are of higher quality than anything you already put on the main servers (castle4 and convoy for sure) or claim to have tested yourself.

I can accept a "because I say so" argument, since you're the boss around here, but not a nonsensical "they don't live up to TF2 standards" argument without any further info to back up that statement, which clearly doesn't hold water if you see the maps in action at least once.

By the way - no problem in re-affirming this by organizing another Custom Map Weekend specifically for the purpose of choosing SpA-point candidates (even if the maps listed above are already the result of such tests -.-) - this would basically coincide with Sarge's suggestion.
Author:  [SpA]Repel [ 22 Dec 2008, 18:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Some of those custom maps were quite cool from what I remember, would be a change from the regular maps aswell. :P
Author:  Marmot [ 23 Dec 2008, 14:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Don't forget about cp_egypt :D , imho the best custom map :) .
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 23 Dec 2008, 16:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
It would be, however, the map isn't designed properly from a technical point of view. In an old forum section, which for some reason got deleted entirely, there was an in-depth analysis of the map showing why there are huge and seemingly inexplicable FPS drops in certain areas. The guy who designed the map simply didn't know all the proper tricks to streamline it technically.

We had the map running on our Custom Map Server for a while but had to take it down...
Author:  quitschbo [ 23 Dec 2008, 18:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
pl_dbheights is also a good custom map which should be mentioned here.
imho there should be more payload maps and pl_dbheights is cool payload mod based on dustbowl.
i played that map some time ago on a random french server and it rocked :)
Author:  Bartg [ 23 Dec 2008, 20:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Newest version of cp_egypt ( i guess v2 now ) is far better than first one ;]
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 23 Dec 2008, 20:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
We tested v2 and it still has the same issues.
Author:  [SpA]Relentless [ 23 Dec 2008, 20:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Egypt doesnt even have insanely good gameplay. tbh, it's crap.

Good custom maps are either rare or are now "official usermade maps" (turbine, fastlane... altough the last point on fastlane is a pain in the ass :P)
Author:  Bartg [ 23 Dec 2008, 21:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
I also like cp_stag.
Author:  Marmot [ 24 Dec 2008, 01:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Also good maps are pl_dustbowl, cp_gydan, cp_roswell. Did you tried these? And one thing - never give cp_warpath - that sucks horribly :D
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 24 Dec 2008, 01:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Yeah, we tried them, we tested all the highest rated maps posted at FPSbanana but truth be told the ones we picked for our Custom Map Server were simply the best ones when it comes to both gameplay and quality - there are simply no better custom maps than these since they look almost as if Valve designed them (for the most part).
Author:  [SpA]Mr.green [ 24 Dec 2008, 12:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Bartg wrote:
Try cp_bedrooms, I quite like it - hiding in the grass and blocking doors with monster skate boards and WII controllers is bloody fun :mrgreen:
yeah that map looks fun but i cant find any sevrer playing it.... that a map i would be prepared to pay 40 sappoints to play :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

edit: i mean "SpA-points"
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 29 Dec 2008, 16:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
I'm with Lim on this. These are really some awesome custom maps. :4

[But delete this shitty convoy map! ^^]
Author:  [SpA]futari [ 29 Dec 2008, 16:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
if you really want to play convoy.. play it the way it was meant to (in unreal tournament) O;
Author:  Mint [ 29 Dec 2008, 22:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
I miss our custom maps server, it's the sole reason why I don't play TF2 as much as I used to. playing the same maps over and over again is just... plain boring,
I'd be happy to take on a co-responsability for map and quality testing custom maps, but it would mean I'd have spike or Lim with me. else I'll pass..

so please oh mighty god... uhm.. Saint give us back our custom map server, I promise to play nice again, and even cuddle you into bed each night... maybe give you a good night hug too....
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 30 Dec 2008, 00:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
The Custom Map Server got lost in our general server reconfiguration - the address it was using was turned into one of our L4D servers.

However, I don't think we should have a dedicated Custom Map Server again - it simply wasn't successful enough and when I abandoned my daily routine of trying to fill it, it dropped like hell in popularity. I checked the stats...

On the other hand that's all the more reasons to incorporate the maps we had over there into the SpA points menu and I don't understand Saint's issues with that because as far as I recall we wanted to use the Custom Map Server to find and test the best custom maps we might introduce on the other servers - which is precisely what we did after quite a few map cycle iterations. Saint dismissed all the maps with his dubious "quality standards" above though, which I both don't understand and which pissed me off to no end but I wrote about that already...
Author:  [SpA]futari [ 30 Dec 2008, 00:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
anything.. and I really mean ANYTHING beats convoy.. so some changes do need to be made in my opinion.. maybe replace maps that are never bought and convoy ^^
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 30 Dec 2008, 00:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: new server idea
Yeah - I said that I liked convoy and was infamous for emptying the servers with it but I have to agree that this map pales in comparison to the other ones I posted and which were included in the Custom Map Server MC.

Also, I think cp_castle4 is a map of dubious TF2 quality - it simply doesn't fit in very well. If it does, however, then so would ctf_chaos, which is based on the very same level textures and props and was actually made by the same author. ^^

Again - my real suggestions are the following:

cp_aqua
cp_corporation_b3
cp_freight
cp_junction_v2
cp_science2
ctf_geothermal_b2

cp_aqua is only two stages long but looks very pretty with a crazy underwater lab theme that IMHO fits TF2 perfectly.

cp_corporation is a very well known and widely played custom map that is balanced and very varied with stages that range from open space (in the docks) to close quarters (in the offices). The detail is pretty amazing too.

cp_freight - it's a bit like well combined with granary and other bits of standard maps. It's fully original but it is absolutely indistinguishable from Valve's own work. In fact I dare say that it's more Valve-like than pl_badwater. =)

cp_junction - an interesting cp_gravelpit style map - also very well known and widely played

cp_science2 - a favorite of mine which some people love and others hate. The detail, balance and level scripting are amazing but the layout is confusing for some people who don't realize that the map looks like a cross with the center section ALWAYS accessible for both teams (so for the most part you need to both attack and defend at the same time).

ctf_geothermal - IMHO a masterpiece of gameplay balance or rather ctf_2fort done right. The visual quality is without a doubt high but what makes this map stand out is the smart use of level geometry to prevent CTF stalling - e.g. huge intelli-rooms in which it's extremely hard to turtle in.

All of these maps have received great critical acclaim on FPSbanana and in many custom map communities.
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