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Author:  [SpA]MrOrange [ 15 Aug 2009, 22:39 ]
Post subject:  General thread
I decided to make this thread so we can discuss HoN without cluttering the other two existing threads which have been created for other purposes.

Here's a nifty little guide I found useful as a newbie.
But make sure you're logged in with your HoN account on the forums.

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=737
Author:  [SpA]NabNab [ 15 Aug 2009, 23:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Wohoo i was put on banlist by some DOTA and HoN pros cause i proper suck in a game that was not limited by skill :P
Author:  [SpA]MrOrange [ 16 Aug 2009, 11:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
That annoys be about the game at the moment.

Even if you're on a noob server you'll still see some DotA pros calling you names because you suck.
(and there's no way around the fact that everyone who hasn't played DotA sucks the first eight games or so)
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 16 Aug 2009, 11:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Hence the nickname thread - we should organize some gameplay sessions. ^^
Author:  [SpA]MrOrange [ 16 Aug 2009, 11:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Alright, who's in for tonight?
Author:  [SpA]ArchLurker_Chad [ 16 Aug 2009, 11:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
What time? I got time this evenin'.
Author:  [SpA]futari [ 16 Aug 2009, 12:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I don't have time tonight, I got me some tf2 matches as far as I know :/
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 16 Aug 2009, 13:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I think you do futty
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 16 Aug 2009, 13:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Reply to futari's post in the nickname thread. It was by all means relevant but my reply belongs more in this thread. ^^
[SpA]futari wrote:
Yeah, I simply hate melee heroes.. especially in early game I lag behind on the rest.
If I pick a hero it's 9/10 times something ranged, all this micromanagement is not meant for me though~

Night Hound <3
Well - everything in this game is sadly a bit of a clickfest and hence I already wrote that this isn't something I plan on getting good at.
Even basic stuff like killing something is reduced to correctly timed clicks - apparently the very basic skill you have to master is last-hitting and denying, which is delivering the last hit to the enemy's creeps or your own creeps at the very last moment before they die...

Of course this game (or rather DotA) is built around this concept and that's why I have no gripes with it but this is a bitter reminder for me of what became of most RTSes too. I used to like StarCraft a lot initially but with time Battle.net got populated with pro-kiddies calling you names and mastering the gameplay to such a degree that it wasn't enough to just think strategically, you had to be very good at, well, clicking. True - shooters are all about twitch-reflexes too BUT somehow I feel that the aiming skill you acquire is universal - you are good in one shooter, you will most likely be good in the next one too, after some adapting.

In the case of the *Craft series or the DotA-style offshoots I feel as if the acquired skills are much more specific. The variation in RTS-es is a bit larger than in e.g. FPS-es and hence carrying over solely clicking-proficiency might not get you far in another game that e.g. has a very different interface or plays at a different pace. In effect I don't have the motivation to stick to one game for all eternity while shooter skills (however small they might be in my case ;-) serve as a gatewate to a broad range of current and future titles.
Author:  [SpA]MrOrange [ 16 Aug 2009, 14:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Yes, the clicking is something that bugs me too.

I don't like how you have to be as precise as a sniper going for a headshot if you want to click an enemy hero in the midst of a gang of creeps.
Author:  [SpA]Minimoose! [ 16 Aug 2009, 14:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I hate games where you have to click a lot, unless it's a diablo style game. I only really like RTS's as a relaxing kind of thing, if I have to do 150 actions a minute to be average then I really cannot be arsed :P I've just installed it so I'll give it a go at some point ;)
Author:  [SpA]CrackHead [ 16 Aug 2009, 20:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
have a nightshift 2night, but 2morrow night im free. I can even give u some tips.

I cant quote lim, because our eyes would bleed of the long post, but what u are saying is true, for the beginning at least. After awhile u get into hunting parties or just go solo for some midevil fun. After you hit lvl 10+ last hitting aint no prob anymore.

But figuring out what 2 buy and how 2 use some talents requires some good thinking, aswell as assembling a good team instead of retarted groups with no melee hero who can soak up the damage or without any casters 2 pick off critically injured enemies, aswell as dealing heavy amounts of damage.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 16 Aug 2009, 22:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I have out-sourced the thinking part by reading loads of guides on the forums and having printed them out, so I know PRECISELY what to buy and what skills to level. ^^
Even if they outline only one potential path, they've been written by pros, so at least it's a path that's guaranteed to work. :-D

And well - of course you learn everything the game requires sooner or later so that it isn't a "problem" anymore but the gameplay still requires you to do stuff like last-hitting better than the other team, since it will allow you to grow more rapidly than the enemy and hence ensure your victory.

But hey, there's no need in countering my arguments - I don't deny that this is a good game and I want to at least have the basics down. I'm just saying that it isn't quite the thing I like, and you can't convince me that it's otherwise since this is something purely subjective, but if I STILL want to get something going in there means that the game is good enough to make me see past my personal problems with it, so is actually an even bigger recommendation for those, who like this stuff from the beginning. ^^
Author:  [SpA]CrackHead [ 17 Aug 2009, 07:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
1st off don't copy exactly what the "Pro's" say.... they are usually made for their own playstyle. Your playstyle should differ thus you will buy some different items.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 17 Aug 2009, 10:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I'm not going to be involved in the game enough to develop my own play style and second of all, since I want to play exclusively agility carry heroes, there's a common tactic to them all and similar items you should be getting. After reading the guides I understand why certain items are preferred and I would pick the same ones (with perhaps minor adjustments) myself anyway.
Author:  [SpA]CrackHead [ 17 Aug 2009, 10:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
So guys, how many people are going 2 play 2night?
Author:  [SpA]MrOrange [ 17 Aug 2009, 11:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I'll be playing, maybe trying out the Demented Shaman since we have few people who play healers and support.

I will heal YOUR FACE!
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 17 Aug 2009, 11:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I wanna play!
I'll need some scary early-game guy to protect my Agi character. ^^

I see Mr.Orange read the Demented Shaman guide? :-D

Keep in mind that I haven't played a SINGLE live game yet because I didn't want to do so without people I know and who would put up with my noobishness. :-P
Author:  [SpA]MrOrange [ 17 Aug 2009, 16:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I won't be able to come after all.

Going out for a drink with my mates.

I might pop in around midnight to see who can tackle a Drunk Demented Shaman.
Author:  [SpA]CrackHead [ 17 Aug 2009, 19:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
how about a 1 on 1 limmy? I wont be killing u off immediately. Ill choose Jeriziah or Axe, to give u a chance 2 run away :)
(Note: Strenght Heroes are the slowest class ingame unless u buy shitloads of speed enhancements items.)
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 17 Aug 2009, 20:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I would be retarded to play a 1on1 with an agility hero. I'd probably choose Thunderbringer instead. 1on1 is no fun though - especially since I'm such a noob. It's like challenging people to 1on1 in CS or TF2. :-P
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 17 Aug 2009, 20:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
... or playing Sagat in SFIV. :wink:
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 17 Aug 2009, 22:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
[SpA]Blackhawk wrote:
... or playing Sagat in SFIV. :wink:
Super Battle Opera 2009 - 11 Sagats participated only ONE made it to the semi-finals and that was Mago, the best Sagat in the world - he then lost to a gimmick Rufus/Viper team.

Only noobs cry about Sagat because they don't know how to fight him. Hah! :-P
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 17 Aug 2009, 22:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

Oh wait... wrong game... now back to topic. :roll:
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 18 Aug 2009, 11:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Thanks for the nice games yesterday!
We finally managed to get HoN going in a larger group with me, VillageCrackhead, Mr. Orange (drunk ;-), futari and YellowGoudvis.

First we played a 3vs2 with the 2 being me as Swiftblade and VillageCrackhead as his favorite Thunderbringer. It was pretty much my first "live" game and CrackHead was absolutely amazing. I followed my Swiftblade guide to the letter and it helped immensely at the end when my hero became immensely powerful striking for around 500 damage with normal attacks alone and killing roaming heroes with his ultimate in seconds but the real star was obviously Thunderbringer who saved my ass so many times, it's not even funny - I think he finished the match, which we surprisingly won, despite early setbacks, with a K:D ratio of 23:2 or something. ;-)
To put it in Mr Orange's words, who played the Demented Shaman (how fitting, considering his state of intoxication ;-): "Whenever I saw CrackHead approach I didn't even run - I just stopped and bent over to make it easier for him." Ha, ha!

The next match was quite fun with all of us playing on one team now (I think someone left? Did Mr Orange play in this match?). Sadly the setting dictated random heroes so I ended up with Slither, whom I had no idea how to play. Using Steam's blessed overlay browser I fired up a guide and at least managed to be semi-useful although also a popular target for the enemy to harass (DAMN YOU MADMAN!). CrackHead was doing well but we had another star player in our ranks - so dude playing Soulstealer who absolutely OWNED the enemy team with a K:D ratio similar to CrackHead's in the earlier fight.

The last fight was just me and CrackHead joining a random game and sadly experiencing the awful HoN community and pro-kiddie attitude.

For some reason the game fucked up for me quite badly and despite having good ping everything started lagging more and more as the match progressed with inputs being delayed by, attention, 10 SECONDS! The shops bugged out for me, so I wasn't able to buy items either. I played Thunderbringer whom I'm of course not familiar and good with like CrackHead and so I ended up getting owned immensely on top of that. It was absolute bullshit and some moron playing Jereziah started calling us names and dissing us as noob children (although I'm pretty sure we were twice his age) with the funny fact being that he was the second worst player on our team getting owned almost as badly (I had like 0-7 when I left - it didn't make any sense anyway with the lag - and he had 1-6 or so ;-).

It didn't help that the enemies were very, very good and coordinated player, using new undocumented characters too - e.g. I had no idea how the Magmus guy owned me so quickly all the time. I guess I'll learn when I at least know what skills he has...

So that's it - I hope we'll play together again - and NO, I still don't want a 1on1 with you, CrackHead. Now even more so than before. :-P

P.S. We created a clan with the 1337 tag "5pA", since "SpA" was already taken. :-P
Author:  [SpA]MrOrange [ 18 Aug 2009, 11:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Yeah, it was immensely fun!

I indeed left after the first match. Can't remember why though, because I was online for another hour or so.
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 18 Aug 2009, 11:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Hmm... if this is another ya-have-to-know-each-guide-letter-by-letter-game then I won't like it.
Author:  Lim-Dul [ 18 Aug 2009, 11:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
[SpA]Blackhawk wrote:
Hmm... if this is another ya-have-to-know-each-guide-letter-by-letter-game then I won't like it.
Weeell - as ze Germanz say "jein". ;-)

CrackHead is an experienced DotA player and has his own tactics and strategies and utilizes them well. You can just use your own brain to build and play a good hero too. However, I'm a firm believer in not going into any game unprepared and remember that HoN, especially the Beta, is full of DotA veterans who have a HUUUGE advantage over you. If yesterday's session is anything to go by then you have to expect random hero games a lot too and that means knowing each and every one of them, so you're not lost - knowing all the heroes is kinda required anyway so that you know what the can/cannot do and why they're owning you (or why you should own them).

E.g. now I know why I was being raped in the epic fail lag match yesterday - apparently I was laning against a Pestilence/Magmus combo (an experienced one at that) and that is the ultimate ganking pair.

So, yeah, it really is something you will have to read up on, especially since there are some hidden tricks/strategies you will never be able to learn by yourself unless a more experienced player teaches/shows them to you or you discover them by accident. It is a game that requires a huge time investment to become good at but so far I like it - more so than I expected, Section 8 is all but forgotten. ;-)
The upside of the time investment is that you are actually training your own skills, however specific to this game they might be - you're not just wasting time on farming levels in a MMORPG or whatever since every match is self-contained.
Author:  [SpA]Blackhawk [ 18 Aug 2009, 12:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
Ok... I never played DotA and WC3 only ages ago... probably I should look into something else. ;)
Author:  [SpA]futari [ 18 Aug 2009, 13:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: HoN general thread
I also left after the first match, it was fun though~
Meh, maybe I'll look into some guides.. though I firmly believe in buying shiny things!
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