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First architect suggestion!
https://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopic.php?t=8230		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Stop_Sign [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:08 ]
Post subject:  First architect suggestion!
In light of our discussions in the other threads, here's the first one.
The guy who made it is kattoo, and while his first day on our server was only october 8th, he has 50 hours played. He built this himself and said it took 30 hours. Its good for the forums because the time limit prevents him from getting architect right now, so we have plenty of time to judge it.
It can be found in architect1 right now.

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Author:  FillerB [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
that...
is...
AWESOME!
Author:  Illumination [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Looks he used the software that the guy making the enterprise used.
Author:  Stop_Sign [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Illumination wrote:
Looks he used the software that the guy making the enterprise used.
MCEdit? Nope. No software involved.
Author:  Illumination [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
You have no way of verifying that
Author:  PetePorty [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Actually, as far as I know, that was done on our server, where the only people who can use software to do what the enterprise guy did are the trustee/trustess and owners...
Author:  InTheGlory [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Isn't Kattoo a builder? I helped him some while he was building this, and I distinctly remember him being builder rank.
Author:  kattoo [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Well, Stop_sign promoted me last night after I finished it.

No, no software used, just referrence pictures of a model in 3D Studio Max.
Took me well over 30 hours to finish this, Nessy helped me by moving the head (which I originally made in the TV/Film contest world), then I moved on to make the spine (something amazing should remember how it looked back then).

Then I just moved on, building chest, arms, hands (used InTheGlory's help to copy one part to the other side, then orc helped aswell).

I admit, I worked over 12 hours straight over the weekend, each day, finishing it at 5am local time on Monday :S

Stop_Sign helped me with moving it to architect1, because it was too tall to fit in builder44 where the original build still remains.
Author:  InTheGlory [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
I can back up that you built it without software, because you did a lot of "play-by-play" tweaking. You worked hard on it.

Just to clarify, Stop already promoted you for this build?
Author:  [SpA]cardboard [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
InTheGlory wrote:
I can back up that you built it without software, because you did a lot of "play-by-play" tweaking. You worked hard on it.

Just to clarify, Stop already promoted you for this build?

Just about to ask that same question :D
Author:  Stop_Sign [ 11 Oct 2010, 19:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Yea i did. Is it worth a double promo though? This is going into more of what defines an architect, what they have built or what they can build. If its what they built only, then he needs another mason build to consider this for architect. I'd define architect as what they are able to build though, so I put him at mason (doubt anyone will argue that point) so he can have an intermediate status.
Double promo's aren't unheard of. I think phaerius went builder--> architect?
Author:  [SpA]cardboard [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
The idea of double promo's for one build isn't a great one. We already have enough issues comparing one builds worth to others and subjective taste clouding the issue of what constitutes a build worthy of a promo. This all said while I have no real say what so ever.

I do believe its worthy worthy of architect though.
Author:  PetePorty [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
No, no, no, no, no.... No double promos dude.
Author:  InTheGlory [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
It's certainly worth Mason, for sure. Kattoo is very talented.

Personally I wouldn't promote twice for a single build. If we make exceptions and blur the lines, before we know it, it would be happening more often.

I do feel that there is a lot of empathise on the server lately of rushing through ranks. I don't see it as a race, and somebody as talented as Kattoo (obviously somebody who enjoys building) would have no problem with producing another great piece of work for a future promotion.

These are just my opinions.
Author:  [SpA]JuncoPartner [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
I love it, people have been saying kattoo used software, but I'm glad that's false.

I deffinetly think it's an archi build, I've seen someone skip mason before, for good reason of course, but I think InTheGlory has got a point.
Author:  Stop_Sign [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Great point InTheGlory, and he said he's already got his next project planned. OK then, no to double promos.
But, more importantly, the process worked. We all got to see his build, saw it was on the forums, heard him talk about it as well, and now the possibility of him just finding a different OP who doesn't ask those important questions (not that he would) is greatly lowered.
We should do this for all arch possibilities.
Author:  Illumination [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
I didn't say he used software to build it, but if he literally had the 3d image in 3DSMAX it's not as impressive. (That's the software I meant)
Author:  Pandorum [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Am I the only one thinking it's not worth arch, or maybe am I too strict? Anyway double promo should never happen.
Author:  PetePorty [ 11 Oct 2010, 20:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
I have to agree with drunken brat here.

PD: dude, that's gonna stick.
Author:  Hafnium [ 11 Oct 2010, 21:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
I really don't know how I feel about using 3ds max as a reference diminishing the awesomeness of a build. I can say, however, that unless Kattoo programed a bot to place the blocks from memory, he couldn't have used software to generate this build.

At first glance, I was against double promotions, but then I started thinking about what the architect rank is. If someone builds an architect worthy build, but they're only a builder, why should they only get mason? If the same person had first built a non-architect worthy, yet mason worthy, build first, and THEN an architect worthy build, they would get the promo. Are the qualifications for architect then "build something cool AND THEN build something epic?" That doesn't seem right.

Architect is an odd rank anyway. Some people skip right to mod. I really can see no justification for an outright ban on builder -> +architect promotions for worthy builds.

On a more on-topic note, I'm withholding my vote on this until get a chance to log in and check it out. Oh, and don't mind the chat in the second screenshot. HBOT and I were having an argument.
Author:  Xesdra [ 11 Oct 2010, 22:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
You skip to mod if you show administration capabilities without necessarily great building ones. Builder --> Architect should be something like Imperial City standard, but leave him at that.

Is this the Official Architect thread or are we gonna make one for each build? :?
Author:  FillerB [ 11 Oct 2010, 22:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
I have no doubt that before his 1-week-wait is up he'll make another mason-quality build. So doublepromo isn't really necessary.
Author:  Stop_Sign [ 11 Oct 2010, 22:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Xesdra wrote:
Is this the Official Architect thread or are we gonna make one for each build? :?
I was thinking 1 thread for each build
FillerB wrote:
I have no doubt that before his 1-week-wait is up he'll make another mason-quality build. So doublepromo isn't really necessary.
So are you saying that if he builds a builder-->mason worthy promo, then this would count as his mason-->architect promo? If it passes the votes, that is
Author:  [SpA]cardboard [ 11 Oct 2010, 22:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Stop_Sign wrote:
Xesdra wrote:
Is this the Official Architect thread or are we gonna make one for each build? :?
I was thinking 1 thread for each build
You can try that but I swear to god, lim and saint that I'll personally merge them all with an official promotions thread myself if you do.

Bloody board has enough clutter as it is.... I'd prefer it if it were in a locked forum with only certain access rights making sure +architect votes are carried out a little less publicly but that would have to be in discussion with the management.
Stop_Sign wrote:
FillerB wrote:
I have no doubt that before his 1-week-wait is up he'll make another mason-quality build. So doublepromo isn't really necessary.
So are you saying that if he builds a builder-->mason worthy promo, then this would count as his mason-->architect promo? If it passes the votes, that is
That's how I read it
Author:  FillerB [ 11 Oct 2010, 22:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
And thats how i meant it. If he can get mason with a separate build, and this passes the voting, I dont see the problem
Author:  Hafnium [ 12 Oct 2010, 00:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
FillerB wrote:
And thats how i meant it. If he can get mason with a separate build, and this passes the voting, I dont see the problem
So if someone builds an architect worthy build as a builder, he gets promoted to mason. If that player then builds a mason worthy build, he gets promoted to architect? I just can't see the logic behind that. If the build would get a mason to architect, it should get a builder to architect as far as I'm concerned.
PetePorty wrote:
No, no, no, no, no.... No double promos dude.
Architect is like a special distinction only the best builders get. Its not just another step in our little caste system. I understand why we shouldn't promote from guest->mason or from mod->supop, but builder->arch is different. The only real difference between masons and architects is prestige.
[SpA]cardboard wrote:

You can try that but I swear to god, lim and saint that I'll personally merge them all with an official promotions thread myself if you do.

Bloody board has enough clutter as it is.... I'd prefer it if it were in a locked forum with only certain access rights making sure +architect votes are carried out a little less publicly but that would have to be in discussion with the management.
Yeah, this really shouldn't be a public process. This board is prone to drama already.
Author:  FillerB [ 12 Oct 2010, 00:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
Hafnium wrote:
FillerB wrote:
And thats how i meant it. If he can get mason with a separate build, and this passes the voting, I dont see the problem
So if someone builds an architect worthy build as a builder, he gets promoted to mason. If that player then builds a mason worthy build, he gets promoted to architect? I just can't see the logic behind that. If the build would get a mason to architect, it should get a builder to architect as far as I'm concerned.
What i meant was that he could, and I have no doubt will, build a mason-worthy build. For THAT build he gets mason. Then he applies for Architect with THIS build which he build earlier. A bit... cumbersome I agree but he is bound to the 1-week-wait anyway.

Also Architects get promotion-rights. So its not just for prestige.
Author:  Hafnium [ 12 Oct 2010, 00:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
FillerB wrote:
What i meant was that he could, and I have no doubt will, build a mason-worthy build. For THAT build he gets mason. Then he applies for Architect with THIS build which he build earlier. A bit... cumbersome I agree but he is bound to the 1-week-wait anyway.

Also Architects get promotion-rights. So its not just for prestige.
First, I'm not talking directly about this build.

I wasn't aware that Architects had promotion powers. I thought mod+ were the only ranks with moderation powers above kick. >.>

If what you say is the case filler, then why would you get promoted to mason for the architect worthy build? Forgive me if this is an oversimplification, but are you essentially telling the builder in question "This is a great build! Have a promotion! make something good, but not necessarily great and we'll promote you again!" ?

THAT doesn't make sense to me. :?
Author:  SomethingAmazing [ 12 Oct 2010, 05:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
YOU GUYS ARE STRAYING FROM THE POINT. Thats NOT what i had in mind. Simply put, I like katto personally, but i DONT think this is architect. Sorry brah. Im kind of a hardass but is that bad in this case? I say no for architect especially at this point. Unless someone specifically says "yes arch promote" or "no arch promote" i will not count the vote.
Author:  DeathFire [ 12 Oct 2010, 05:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: First architect suggestion!
ok i clarify As the Head Trustee i say its worthy of the promote so sayith I
only Lim can say otherwise
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