I've always played on freebuild before, but the last couple of weeks I started playing Survival a lot (the single player). However, I got kinda bored after a while by playing on my own. So I decide to check out SMP. I login to the Spa-server ofcourse, because that way I'd know a lot of people already. The reason that I started playing survival is because of the realism. I love the fact of building everything by hand and really putting a lot of work in it, instead of cuboiding huge stuff on freebuild in the blink of an eye. (I start my rant here) Hence, I was really disappointed when I found out that supops+ had all of these tools that make it much easier for them to build, like magic stick etc. This kinda defies the point of survival for me. In my opinion, there shouldn't be any commands at all that alter the building aspect of survival. And I go even further than that, I think teleporting and other commands that take away from the realism shouldn't be in the game. So, I'd really like to know your thoughts on this. Do you think the high ranks (or any rank) should have access to these tools or not? If Lim plans on keeping these tools available, I'll probably start playing smp on a different server, even though I would really like to keep playing at Spa.

I don't see the problem, sometimes these tools are needed for different reasons, just don't use them and problem solved.

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<+Thaw111> although im shit at speeling
<+Thaw111> type
<+Thaw111> gtypo
<+Thaw111> typo
<+Thaw111> shit

The problem is that players do use these tools when they're not needed.

I don't see any harm in Lim helping here and there with large projects, and I also understand that Trustee's are a respected and trusted rank. Having said that, I don't believe they should have access to it. The cuboid plugin was an Anti-Griefing tool, which is not what its being used for.
If trustee's have it, and are using it the way that i wasn't intended then I believe it should be available for member+.

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Heres a thought. Don't use the tools. If you can't control yourself we can demote you to op so you have the purity of the game.

We have the tools because we have earned them.

Sennec used rant.

Sennec is confused!

Sennec hurt itself in its confusion!

Sennec fainted.

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Breasts

Sennec, if you dont like them, you dont have to use them. That makes YOUR experience more fun, and the people who like the commands still have fun as well. I dont see why what they do bothers you.

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Not in cruelty. Not in wrath. The Reaper came today; an Angel visited this gray path, and took the cube away.

Its not that Ollie, its fact that its taking the fun aspect out of the game.

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Teleporting in some form is a must until minecarts work fully, then we can have THAT discussion.

I'm only using the stick because there seems to be a bug with items not disappearing when mined, or maybe that's just lag. Either way, the stick never fails.

The root question here is the same as the topic I posted about the SMP atmosphere. Are we shooting for hardcore survivor, or freebuild with mining?
Was that your intent when you installed it? Oh wait.

If Lim has no problem with trustees doing quick cuboids for people when asked, its not just an anti-grief tool.

And sennec, if you have a problem with the upper levels of the server, why post it in the public forum?

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It was used to emphasize the point, and is generally accepted by the grammar nazi community.

So you find it ok to use them? I don't have the tools, I'm just a member on smp. But I don't think anyone should have them. Not in a realistic game, there's freebuild if you just want to build things really fast. That's not what smp is for imo.
I agree, teleportation is ok now that minecarts don't work, but when they do, teleportation should be removed imo. I don't have a problem with the upper levels haf, I just want to hear everyone's opinion on this, because it concerns everyone.

The reasons we have it is because its one of the things we earned by being trusted. Similar to the magic stick being EARNED by supop by being trusted enough to be supop. Lim has since said that there is nothing wrong with this cuboid plugin and can be used at supop discretion. If they want to "ruin" their own experience then let them. It is exactly the same as a trader being promoted to the member rank and EARNING the use of /tp.

Also Hit, fun is an individual appreciation. I have fun using the magic stick. If Sennec does, DON'T USE THE STICK.

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Breasts

Realism doesn't enter into it. Don't even...

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It was used to emphasize the point, and is generally accepted by the grammar nazi community.

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Breasts

Okay, then why can the lower ranks not have access to the magic stick? THAT is purely for anti-griefing purposes, however this again isn't the case..

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That just ruins the atmosphere if some people use them and others don't. It's simply not what smp is about imo.

How? Cuboid is a rare occurance anyway. I have used it 3 times. 1 to fill a hole, 1 to clean a griefed to shit building and one because I wanted to. Fuck...I might as well stop playing cause the experience is so ruined.

Supops and trustees have these tools for a reason. You aren't one so fair enough, you can't appreciate the reasons, but no you can't petition to take them away from us. Once we have earned the right and the responsibility, we have also earned the PRIVLEDGE to use these. This is not a decision for you to make.

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Breasts

He is, however allowed to voice his opinion and you should respect that, and you can ''appreciate'' the reasons no matter what rank you are. Your beliefs/opinions don't suddenly change when you're a supop.
It would be good, if there could be some limitations on the cuboid.
As for the magic stick, I still believe that member+ should be allowed access to it, it was put in place for anti-griefing purposes, and now its being used for mining.

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This is not a rant about me not being supop and therefore not being able to use the tools. Like hit_girl said, I'm just expressing my opinion and I'd like to hear what other people think about it.

The stick is not meant for member+. With it you can take ANYTHING, including bedrock, flowing water, flowing lava, ANYTHING! So no, it shouldn't be used for member+. If it's a "griefing tool" it doesn't matter, members aren't supposed to look griefers, we have ops+ for that.

Like I said, don't use the tools and bingo, problem solved.

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<+Thaw111> although im shit at speeling
<+Thaw111> type
<+Thaw111> gtypo
<+Thaw111> typo
<+Thaw111> shit

Exactly as ollie said, these tool are earned with trust.
Same as freebuild where u get promotions, and access to more commands.

Supop+ can edit worlds, just as on here supop+ has the pimp stick.
These things are earned. Tbh if u get it right off the bat, youl get bored, and wont have anything to look forward to when you get promotions

Edit: Tbh = to be honest
just incase

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Fucking hell. Don't turn it into one of THESE arguments again. My opinion IS that. His opinion IS that. I DISAGREE with his opinion for the reasons I HAVE STATED, and I MADE A CONCLUSION. We have all been to school, and we all know that is how an argument works.

The magic stick can be used for mining because we have EARNED the PRIVLEDGE to use it. The stick grants the almighty power to beat the block lag. And hell no, Pandorum is mega right, it is without a doubt not a member tool.

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Breasts

There's no need to get all worked up. I'm not making any decisions here, just trying to start a discussion about it. Which has worked so far ^^.

You didn't really point out any problems.
Bedrock is being handed out & sold amongst players;
flowing water & lava is just like having a bucket full thus not being a problem;
and YES its a suppose griefing tool, so remind me why players are using it for the exact opposite of that?
edit:: Into what exactly Ollie? I'm telling you what I think don't get so angry about it..
So, what harm would it do for members to have it?

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So you're saying supops are griefing with the stick, right? Because that's what is going to happen if we let it to anyone.

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<+Thaw111> although im shit at speeling
<+Thaw111> type
<+Thaw111> gtypo
<+Thaw111> typo
<+Thaw111> shit

Hm I'm not sure about the magic stick, it can be really laborious hacking away at stone for hours, and then you see a supop going through it like butter with their stick. Damn stick.

Despite that, my opinion on all the plugins including the stick, runes, teleporters, time changes is this:
While health and mobs don't work, there is barely an element of survival involved, there's no point in making things difficult for ourselves. Travel may aswell stay convienient until minecarts work efficiently, though staff must be able to use tp for possible grief. Night is absolutley totally pointless until we have mobs, all it does is make things less visable and lag people(me) to shit, so we may aswell keep it day.

When smp is working as a game, then we can start taking away luxuries, because there's no point making things tedious without adversaries or challenges. I'd like to see things like the magic stick and warps go when that happens. (in 2036)

I never once said they're griefing with the stick. They're doing the jobs that the Pickaxe, Shovel & Axe should be doing, but at 10X the speed.
Its like being on classic for supop+ but for anyone below you have to actually spend time into building stuff which is what smp & ssp is about.

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Let's get back on topic again. It's not about who's doing what, the question is, should building tools be allowed or not (for anyone).

YES this would solve all problems, and would bring back the fun into smp.
(Sorry for the double post)

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Guys...Ollieboy... Stop shouting please.

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I'm new. Or Old. Either way, I'm too awesome for a sig right now.

I find SMP fun as it is right now.

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<+Thaw111> although im shit at speeling
<+Thaw111> type
<+Thaw111> gtypo
<+Thaw111> typo
<+Thaw111> shit

I guess at a certain rank you become more about modding the server, than playing on it. That goes for freebuild mainly, but yeah once you have the magic stick, besides building, abit like on freebuild, but with alittle more work and features, you lose that last bit off point to smp that was left. I'm unsure if I'd use the magic stick or not if I had it. Deffinetly would for obsidian, maybe not for general gameplay, but temptation is a sly woman.

You guys shouldn't be getting shirty about this, because you're all right. No one's wrong, or making invalid arguments, there's plenty of pros and cons, and reasoning on both sides.

Edit: Oh and speaking of pros and conns, and reasons on both sides. There is fuck all reasoning for us to have night, absolutey none!