I know I'm quite new here and merely a vet (classic) / member (SMP) but since it's an open thread, I'm going to throw in my 2 cents.
I beg to differ - throughout the last 8-9 days I mined out perfectly fine about 60k blocks, with all the lags - sure, there respawning issue wasn't most pleasurable, but I reckonned the effort will be worth it.

The presence of the magic stick is quite destructive in SMP with $pA points enabled, as supops can profit from using it, not only by selling usually unattainable items (not saying they do that extensively) but by making resources like coal or iron obsolete (and I mean iron used for buckets - by skipping the process of smelting cobblestone with direct mining of smooth stone for example). Obviously one could question the impact of such behaviour on server's economy, but with some structures that MS wielders have spawned, one should consider it noticeable.

As per cuboids, while the pros are obvious, the cons are that the person who benefited from, say, clearing an area, will still need resources for construction.. so in the end, the profits are not that great. And as Lim himself stated, if I remember correctly - it's up to us if we want an area to be cuboided and he claimed he'd help if anyone asked for such an action to be performed.

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My youtube channel ^^

Then my argument prevails, what gives you right to have that power and not us? Its segregating us from one another.

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Does the stick reduce the fun you have Hit_Girl? If you're envious of the stick, wait until you achieve the rank you need to use it. If you think it ruins the game for the person that uses it, say that and leave it at that.

This seems to be a similar situation to last night regarding the large TnT hole. You wanted be to cuboid it shut, but people were having fun screwing around in it so I declined. Then you ignored me and started covering the hole. The thing is on the very edge of the map anyway, it wasn't hurting anybody. I think that you need to lighten up a bit and stop acting like the great enforcer.
qft
Right, the respawning issue is a pain, and its a bug. I'm sorry that my temporary bug fix can't be applied to everyone.

If any supop is selling unattainable items, don't buy and give me a name. That is an abuse of power IMO.
What gives me the right? I've earned trust. I've contributed to this community, and I've spent a lot of time here. That's what gives me the right. That you would even say that amazes me. I really do think you envy my stick.

The segregation caused by the rank system is necessary to maintain the quality of the SpA servers.

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It was used to emphasize the point, and is generally accepted by the grammar nazi community.

This isn't about envy, and I wouldn't personally use it.. It was implemented for anti-griefing purposes correct? So, why is it being used otherwise & theoretically, all its doing is speeding up up the tools process, my point being how would it be so 'hazardous' for lower ranks to use?.
Not only that, I'm not trying to enforce anything here Hafnium.. I want it to be a fair server, and right now it isn't.. Thats the only thing I'm trying to achieve by writing these arguments, YES sure all you supop+ are having a great time enjoying the extra commands/tools but in doing so you're separating yourselves from the rest of the community. SMP isn't like Freebuild, you don't need the moderation aspect as much. Yes, there will be times & cases that needs dealing with appropriately, but you have so many unnecessary tools/commands to help you do this.
Can't you just understand the issue I'm trying so hard to stress? If I'm not aloud to do that, then sorry for caring! I personally, think that SMP now has too much moderation for such a little group of people. You don't need any of the extra building commands, so why do you have them?
Please, respect what I'm saying or don't bother replying.
edit::
I believe the building advantage tools should be for Lim only.

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Prototypedesign on the Magic Stick

My opinion is this:

The stick is a tool for good, not evil. Why do we care who gets an advantage? I don't recall anyone using the magic stick to become filthy rich. Also, when I use the magic stick and get items (which is not always the case), I either use the items for myself, or give them away. If it means everyone has more fun, it's worth having. Ultimately, once full survival comes out (and blocks can be mined the normal way without causing mental trauma), get rid of it. I don't care.

My second thought that just popped up:

Another thing: As Supops, we're technically sposta' be moderatin' people. We get so many requests to do stuff (not that I mind), that we often are required to "retire from field work and stay at a desk job", meaning that we no longer get chances to build cool things. Also, without compass porting, and without a magic stick, there would be no way for a Supop to remove, say, a floating obsidian penis (and, yes, we have to worry about this), without just building the necessary structure to get up and manually remove it, which would take up to five minutes (or more) to undo thirty seconds of grief.

My third, puerile thought:

If the magic stick goes away, I can't give people my magic stick from behind any more.


Prototypedesign on warps and teleporting:

Main thought:

You want warps and teleporting at least for the highest ranks so that we can moderate. By the time we can walk anywhere, it'd be long gone if a griefer showed up (unless you were a fan of obsidian/bedrock). However, there is no problem with limiting warps to the current Stargate system (again, maybe only upper ranks to build, but the investment should allow at least member+ use), or using a runecraft-style warping system.

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The magic sticks unfair, that's just how it is, lifes unfair, and hierachies are unfair, because people are unfair.

The magic stick is nessesary, but damaging. Perhaps Kattoo's over analysing things, but he's right actually. Things like the magic stick, and carpet is waving meat in peoples faces. It has a purpose, lets use it for that, it'd more fair it wasn't used like a toy. Although I'm not too pushed about it though tbh.

You don't have to agree with hit_girl, but she's preaching fairness here, and that shouldn't critisised.

Oh and can we stop having night? It's getting irritating, no ones given me a single reason besides that "it looks nice"

Getting these new tools is no different from getting more ranks in Freebuild. Think about it this way; in most games you get you spend your time attempting to get better. You get access to more spells, or to more weapons, or to more minions or to more whatever in the game you play. This is that scenario.

And sorry, I had been to the doctor just now, but
<--I'm responding to stuff in that.

I refer you to my first statement about upgrades and stuff.

I personally, BECAUSE of the use of the stick, don't sell anything. In fact, I still buy things. Do you know why? Because I care about the economy. I am trying to get it going but dupers and shit keep fucking it up. Just yesterday I paid a new player $100 just to lay some stone for me, because I wanted to give him the opportunity. ...He did a horrible job. Just sayin.

Hafnium stated he is using the stick to fix the block respawning bug. I have also stated I am doing the same thing. I am also stating that we have earned that right, the Hafnium ALSO stated. Stated.

Hit_Girl, I am talking about the

"This is my opinion." -Player 1

"I disagree with your opinion" - Player 2

"WELL CHRIST SHUT THE HELL UP IT'S ONLY MY OPINION ASSFACE" -Player 1

style argument that you have just coaxed me into.

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Breasts

It would be hazardous for other ranks to use because I'm pretty sure it bypasses zones for one, and don't tell me you're not trying to enforce anything. Not in this specific topic, no. I was speaking more generally than that.

Is it unfair that supops have an unlimited cuboid on freebuild? No. If lower ranks had infinite cuboids it would be easier to grief quickly. THE SAME APPLIES TO THE STICK AND SMP CUBOIDS. I have no problem helping people with these tools, but we certainly can't give them to member+...

I could see some merit in giving ops the same stick powers that the supops have now, because I do trust the ops not to grief.

Quite simply, the extra building commands are useful and allow us to help people have fun on the server. If you can articulate how the game would become more enjoyable if we lost the extra building commands, then your argument may have some merit, but all you've done is say, "It's not fair. Why do you get the cool commands and not us?"

And why does Lim need the commands?

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It was used to emphasize the point, and is generally accepted by the grammar nazi community.

Ok, ummm.... Since the only one who has any real chance to change anything other than Lim is Hafnium, and he wants to keep the stick, this conversation is pointless. Also, I'd ask for a lock, since this is becoming a flame war... But... yeah, again, it's your call.

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I'm new. Or Old. Either way, I'm too awesome for a sig right now.

I never once said you didn't deserve it or hadn't earned it.
I just wondered why it wasn't accessable to other players, and I've yet to have a proper reason.
Other than ''its for anti-griefing'' if thats the case, then surely handing out the permission to use it more would reduce griefing even more.

You're wrong in thinking that. Its not a flame war, this is what happens when people ''debate'' about what is good/bad. Theres nothing wrong in doing so.

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(The above post did not see the previous 2 posts, so I am updating.)

I'm not getting in a shitfight with anyone. I still respect everyone here and my opinion of you people doesn't change.

However you are referring to things that didn't happen. i.e We DON'T sell our magic sticked items. We DO still manage to have fun even though we stick. We DO have the right to use this stick to our discretion.

[quote="[SpA]Hafnium]If you can articulate how the game would become more enjoyable if we lost the extra building commands, then your argument may have some merit, but all you've done is say, "It's not fair. Why do you get the cool commands and not us?"[/quote]

Spot on.

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Breasts

It is a dangerous tool that only trusted people get because as Haf just said it bypasses zones, and gives a player ANYTHING in the world. If you aren't trusted, then don't get all shitty with the supops who are trusted enough.

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Breasts

You DO give out bedrock, which may as well be counted as selling as it makes no difference either way.

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Guys, this isn't even truly up for discussion and the poll is pointless. All the SMP tools are there for administrative purposes when they are needed or when they are crucial for some builds that would i.e. require days of busywork - some people like it, people with jobs probably don't want to return to a second job after they're done in the evening. If it's necessary for some people to have fun, I'm or the other trustees should be there to help.

Having said that though I don't want all the "new" commands to be used pointlessly. I mean - I'd much rather have them used for fooling around like setting fire to people than actual building work - that's not what they are meant for and I won't put up with this.

If you want to make a personal build as a trustee and want to hack the materials together or use the stick, I'm fine with that - if you directly influence the world in the server with the tools for no reason, i.e. carving out huge chunks of land, building whole cities that are possible only with admin tools, then I'm not OK with it and that's also the reason why I restricted everything in the beginning.

The administrative tools will NEVER make it to lower ranks BUT I will watch their usage and gladly demote anybody who abuses them. In the end they are no different than kicks, bans and so on - higher ranks should have them and can use them "at leisure" as long as they are used properly.

And I don't see how other people having access to some commands makes the game less fun to YOU other than through sheer jealousy. 0_o
People with access to advanced commands earned their rank and trust - like admins on the server, we need people with more control over it since I can't handle it all by myself.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

I have never, and I have already stated in that other thread in the supop section that I don't at all condone that.

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Breasts

There it is.

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Breasts

Long story short: thanks for your input, we will set up some clearer rules when and how some things are to be used but ranks and commands are going to stay.
End of story, no need to rant about it for hours at a time since this is not a community decision.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

It's all fair the way it is, it makes no sense to give griefing tools to people who will grief with them.

I use the magic stick for whatever the heck I want, why? Because I know it doesn't harm ANYBODY and instead of wasting the 15 minutes I spend everyday on SMP, what do I do? I help other people, whether by flattening land with the magic stick, giving stuff that I picked with the magic stick, to someone who needs it, build something they need help with. Without tools like that, the 15 minutes I would spend on SMP would be mining on my own regardless of anyone's help.

Is it fair? Yes it is. Why wouldn't it be? Look at other games, TF2 for example, the first time you play you realize you're the only soldier with that crappy shovel, will you go on TF2 forums write a rant about how people who spent hours on the game have a better melee weapon? No, that's just a way of rewarding people for being an active member of the game, in our case, the server. There are hundreds of other examples.

Does it make the game less fun? Hell no, I'd say the opposite, because the people I helped when I was online are happy that they got their project done faster, therefore, having more fun than they would have.

Does it mess up the economy? NO, not at all! I'm not selling the things I take, I give them, instead of the person spending 10 SpA points or whatever the currency is now, that way he can spend it on other stuff. That's just how an economy goes. I'm giving bedrock to anyone who will use it properly, it still doesn't mean I'm selling it, now that would be different.

Until a real argument is said, I'm not replying to this thread anymore.

EDIT : Nevermind, thread is locked. ^^

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<+Thaw111> although im shit at speeling
<+Thaw111> type
<+Thaw111> gtypo
<+Thaw111> typo
<+Thaw111> shit