Exactly, it's an idealistic premiss.
saying "please everyone pick a good class" or "we need more medics" is going to work once in a while, sure, but its not going to happen all the time.

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

Hey dudes!

i read this thread with great interest and theres some interesting ideas. I'd give my two pennies worth:

I've never really had an issue with this problem until the free to play came in. The fact of the matter is, TF2 isn't like every other FPS game out there.... its not about the individual coming top or winning...its about the TEAM winning. Alot of the new folk are used to their call of dutys and their modern warfares and dont seem to realise this point.

Saying 'its just a different challenge and teams should adapt to beat the situation' just doesnt wash with me. Maybe a week ago i had the situation of being on the attacking team, coming out of the resapawn and finding 4 sentry guns staring down at us. (cant remember the map name). it was the most infuriating experience ive ever had on TF2 (and those that know me, know that i simply NEVER get angry lol). for every 4 inexperienced players playing as engi on the opposing team, all it takes its one experienced pyro (like ballsy mentioned before) and any 'counter-plan' you have goes out the window.

our team was a GOOD team with alot of experienced players on it... we decided to built up two ubers in the respawn... uber two demos and take out the sentrys, followed by a wave of attacking classes..... we come out of the respawn ubered... the 4 sentry guns meant we were completely glued to the spot...you couldnt jump and a pyro kept blasting us back. it was physically IMPOSSIBLE to win. probably on of the first times ever i was proper annoyed after a game of TF2.

Whilst i like the idea of a messaging saying 'the other team has four engis' yadda yadda, and i understand how that might help new players... it wouldnt have made any difference the other night. My mum has a saying 'When someone is drowning, dont describe the water to them'

On the other hand, like other people have mentioned, with the influx of new folk, it would be frustrating if your team needed a GOOD engineer...and you have 2 inexperienced ones filling the slots.

My opinion is a limit is needed however.... id make it 3 people on Heavys, Spies, Snipers and Engis.

The counteract the new folk? just TALK to them... let them know what you think they might be doing wrong and do it in a NICE way... saying 'Fucking ell, 4 snipers?! will one of you change class FFS' ISNT going to help the situation... and ive seen it done....

Asking someone if they're new to the game... and then saying to them 'hey dude... you know a good class to start with is a medic...you get a good score, your instantly appreciated, and you get a little bit more time to see how each class works when you link with them or get protected by them' is much more likely to get a response

. Another good way (which i did today when i saw our team needed a medic)... give them a weapon or two for the class you want them to be! we all have spare weapons sitting in our backpacks... offer a new weapon to someone and 9 times out of 10 they will want to try it out instantly.

Im trying to stock up and kritzkriegs and medic items for this very reason

my two pennies.

P.S. hate to be controversial though....but i think 1 engineer isnt always enough on CTF

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"What are you guys talking about?"
ZombieStalin: ... God... and Porn....
"NIIIIICEEEEEE"

You should try quickfix + uber combo next time.

So yeah, go on with the discussion. :>

1 engy on ctf is important, because its fair enough on a large map like a payload or a capture point map with 3 engies holding the line it can be taken down, but one room full of them is just stale mate, people give up even trying to get the intel and then, what is the point

But Kaos, what your mum said, is spot on and highly accurate!

I've been watching vanilla and the normal class rollout is 4 heavies, 4 spies, 4 snipers and the odd few people who know what they are doing lol

The class someone else picks can directly affect the team and if they are new they should be encourage to try all the classes, but if they are allowed to just play the one they want all the time, then they wont bother, they have to learn how to balance a team, because that is the game

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

I contest you couldn't think of more than one game for this!
Is this me?

But yeah spot on Kaos

Im not the sort of person to get angry over TF2, but i came so close to throwing my computer through a window. We were on defence on Badwater with 4 engineers, 3 snipers, a spy and me as a soldier. I tried to persuade the other players to change classes (and even offered to go medic to help them) but all that happened was that we ended up with was 2 less engineers and 2 more spies

Needless to say we got steamrolled in about 2 minutes, not because the other team were brilliant, but just had sensible class choices. If we go down the route of messages and whatever trying to educate them, then they at least have to stay on the servers regularly or they'll just jump around from server to server like all the other F2P's. I would make a suggestion for this but my intelligence is somewhat lacking soI'll leave it for the clever people to give ideas

grabbed off the mailing list;

So most of you agree with having certain class limits and I'd like to thank you all for your feedback on this.

Do you think that we should have different class limits depending on the type of the map or do you think these limits should be global across all maps?

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Classy is when a woman has everything to flaunt, but chooses not to show it!

I have always felt 1 engy limits on ctf maps actually make it physically possible to capture the enemy intel. So I would appreciate this trend to continue.

Other than that, i'm fairly open and okay with global limits

Cheers everyone for your feedback, we were very impressed with the amount of attention this thread got and needed! you are all lovely amazing and especially handsome people indeed

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

This.

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SaintK: I'm completely lost

I would suggest making it global as it could get confusing.

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"this is what it has come to... watching unboxing videos and having a braingasm"

I would deffinetly make it vary for each map. 3 engineers is not a big deal on some maps, but cripping on ctf maps.

In my experience the class limits aren't even neccesary. With all the retarded items in the game now, taking on 10000 sentries is easy peasy. Its just up to the people themselves to change into something usefull. I really don't see the issue because if one team has retard classes all over and loses real fast the scrambler will kick in and should solve the problem.

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Class limits have now been decided upon:

On all ctf maps the engy limit has been set to 1 on all servers.

Thank you to all that posted here with your feedback. If you have any more feedback on this we will be more than happy to listen and do the best we can to help.

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Classy is when a woman has everything to flaunt, but chooses not to show it!

For some reason engies are completely blocked on CTF maps :S

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

It's set to 1 + lock class (no immunity exceptions) - Did that break?

Are there any other class limits besides engis?

Currently it's set to four 5 across the board (1 engy max on ctf maps). However, we are looking into other contingencies in order to curb players into selecting appropriate classes that our required for their team. More information to come.

Though last night me and saint on blue and some really pro medics !! (they were really awesome) managed to take on the last point of the last stage of dustbowl - up against some good demos, heavy medic combos, blowback pyro and 4 sentry guns all in a row at the back.

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

The general limit is set at 5.

Maybe you need to shed some light on why it has been decided upon like this.

Erm..unless I am missing something the class limit (with no immunity bought) is currently 4 across the servers (not sure about Jane Doe). Or do you mean 5 is the hardstop with immunity bought?

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Comfortably Numb

Immunity isn't active. I'll post a full statement as soon as I get time to write it ^^

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

We still need to fully remove immunity (was that confirmed already?). Currently we enforce the engi limit of 1 (this is a special feature made, class limit immunity is still active for all other classes, accept for engi - the old default).

Oh I thought it was already removed. :S my bad

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

Not yet, I'm a bit confused over the decision on that

Me too ^^

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

Saint, I see what those files are saying but unless the limit has changed today or late yesterday it's 4 ingame. As in there can only be 4 snipers on a team. Or scouts. Or demos. Do not know about other classes.

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Comfortably Numb

This is what i noticed too :S and thus my confusion earlier :S

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-"You've really worked out your banter, haven't you?"
-"No, not really. This is a different thing, it's spontaneous and it's called wit."

It's probably a "less than" setting. So if we'd make it 6, we'd actually get 5.

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Comfortably Numb