I was actually thinking in a differant way on this, but a bit similair.

I thought we should implement a mix feature which will mix up the teams after certain events. Then we would implement a feature which allowes you to block the mix for you (donators only feature).

Well done on the A!!!!

Im so proud of you darling..... you should write a book on me and become a millionaire



<3

sorry, of topic...

the mix thing sounds good

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nameless: just because someone joins blu more often then red, it doesn't mean he is a stacker.

I don't like:
* forcing random team selection - for obvious reasons
* mixing teams after some event - because this event will be no indication if the teams are stacked or not. there could be even teams, and one just wins several rounds by a small margin. then the teams would get mixed up and a perfectly good game is ruined (e.g. the other team doesn't get a chance for a revenge)
* 'Team choice permit' - this will just piss of non-regulars and drive them away

I could live with:
* admins manually moving players so the teams are even - though this can piss off players too
* a points command to start a vote to mix teams - though votes suck tbh

All these solutions are by far not ideal imho.
My next idea would be:
Calculate the average points of both teams (could either be ingame points or even hlstatsx skill points) and then put up a message that shows the point difference of the teams if it is above a certain value. The next player that switches from the better to the other team will receive ~10 SpA-Points.

And now we're talkin babe !

That last idea is the best imo. Only we need to be carefull with this, because also the less good players will go an switch in such a case.... Perhaps it should be limited to the top 6 players on the team.

True, but it all comes down to who you want to "punish" - the whole team randomly or the guys that are deliberately choosing sides (and they might be stacking or might simply love blue better).
This won't work 90% of the time for the same reason the "use you brain" argument won't work -> the servers are packed 90% of the time so you can't switch even if you would like to simply because there are no slots available. Once the teams are set you're stuck with it...

That's true, but that is just a minor obstacle.
One solution: When the message is announced that the teams are unbalanced, the player that wants to help even the team has to enter /switchme (or something less stupid) into the chat, and the plugin will switch him with a bad player from the loosing team.

I'd probably not use the score as indicator of skill, but the score/connection time, in other words points per minute. This way I could prevent that an actually good player, that has just joined, gets switched to the better team.
Or I could just querry the hlstatsx database, though I'm not sure about how badly this would affect server load.

if you get players skill (points) when he connects and cache it it shouldn't be a problem

yep, that would be the smartest thing to do.

*Playing red with 9 other regulars, vs blu with only 2*
*joins spectator*
*teams will be autobalanced in 5 seconds*
*Someone from blu goes red, due to autobalance*
*I join blu*

Too bad the team thats getting smacked around has less people most of the time so it doesn't work that well :p

Oh well, its still worth a try. Especially when you have 10!!! regulars on one team and only 2 on the other team.

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A good player with 0 points would still > a bad player with 1 point on it.... so he would still switch.. dunno

Anyways I'm afraid team stacking is still happening and I'm getting really pissed by it.

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Hello,

ermm....... yes, stacking is still occuring...


I feel like im guilty of it, but i always either choose random or join first...

hmm...... i do swap team too if i feel the stacking is terrible, but only after playing a few games until the stacking is obvious, cos sometimes the other team comes back etc..


I think the donators option of a team mix up is good using spa points... we're all responsible and mature enough to NOT abuse.

if you feel the teams are stacked, type in somink then err... perhaps it triggers a vote? or just mixes/??? bah i dunno


I dont want crovax to be annoyed tho, cos he left the other day prematurely, soon after we sorted it and mixed teams so maybe to stop peeps from going this would be just magical.


I just had a banana

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I know you switched Jay, but I didn't feel like playing any longer after 8 rounds of arsewhooping by teamstack vs team random. There were plenty of people on blu complainin about the balance as well.

Anyways I got upset about it, and left to cool off and paint some warhammer mini's.

I don't always pick random, only when there are so few people on either team it doesn't matter. If teams are pretty full, I always check first to see if I see many people I know on both teams or just on one team. Then I join randomly, or join the team that seems to be lacking

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this isnt aimed at you crovax btw... <3 just putting my feelings out there

I wish some people could be more mature about certain things and maybe a little more tactful and constructive.



i resent being labelled as a stacker all the time (either directly or implied) when i always change teams after a game if stacking is evident. Those who play with me have seen me change many many times!

i do on the otherhand enjoy playing with my friends sometimes.... and whenever that happens we play really well and hence all the screenshots and 'evidence' of stacking. Why would there be screens of anything but highscores?? It's fun to play a challenging game and to also sometimes play a game where you have an 8 - 1 kdr :p

After all, why should i never be allowed to 'stack' sometimes? or in otherwords play with my friends...

As for [TaG] formally [SaP] we have been guilty of stacking recently and i apologise on behalf of us , i think it was because we are a new clan and just wanted to see what we're like together and just simply play on the same side.... but to be honest we were all clanless regulars and before the tag, we'd play on the same team and some other regulars on another team and we wouldnt be 'stacking'... the label makes you a target because you stand out.

We have discussed this recently and, unless it's one of those cool games (like the one at labor with lots of spa one side and sap on the other.. some of you may remember) or late at night when no ones gives a shit, then we will always try our hardest to mix.


This SpA community for me has been central to me enjoying and liking this game and playing with friends and regulars make the community so close knit. i worry that a lot of 'bitching' harbours bad feelings towards players and they get labelled as stackers etc.... i'd like it if it was dealt with in a nicer tone.

I'm all up for banter and takin the piss, but not when you cant even play on the same side as a mate anymore...

Thanks for reading my moan (or not reading it)

one more thing, all this medic bollocks has made the game slightly less enjoyable (sometimes) which i also believe leads to stacking, who wants to play on a side with 12 medics all ubering each other and shooting that pony gun all over the joint??? and you always get the odd two regulars that unfortunately get left behind in the pile of farmers.


i <3 you all.... i say, lets just get on with playing

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my complaints about this started far before people were all wearing the same tags. And with the tags it only got worse imho

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Crovax, I'll tell ya a secret... this was aimed at you!

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Well there is one bright side to it, and escpesially the tags. The ppl who stack arent usually very good players. So the stacking kinda outstacks itself. If a few good players join first, then the noobs will follow that team and we´ll all have a perfectly good and balanced game. Ive seen this happen alot. I dont really think that teamstacking is that big of an issue on these servers.

Also I think that autobalancing sounds annoying, If the teams are that unbalanced then the game will be over pritty quickly anyway and the teams usually change after mapchange

I'd say about 90% of the time teams are pretty much fine

I'd say in the case of 10% games they aren't, and there is a 50% chance that the next game will feature almost exactly the same teams after a map change.

Anywas, if some of the regulars would actually keep an eye on the scores they would know how unbalanced skillwise the teams are. If more then half your team has way more points then the other team... something fishy is going on.

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I think so too!


this discussion leads to nowwhere I think... cause who will decide what teams are fair or unfair? a generated rule can't make it better!
there are a lot of facts that have to be keept in mind before inplementing something... good player can join the game later and so they are not shown at the round-statitic of best the best 2, 5, 6 wutever,
the one or other player can "dominate" at one map and "suck" the other! - then it would become unfair again splitting it up!
...

we are many mature and regular player that won't say "NO, STFU" when u ask them to even up teams! And I think I just don't speak for myself, when u ask me to join the other team I will come and help to make it more even! (when I didn't do it by myself)

once again: Communication should be the key!

Restrictions just lead to make player feel unconfortable!

Leaving it to the players themselves doesn't work. Anyways I give up, I just quit playing when things are unfair. Which usually amounts to me quitting the game about 7 times per week. I ask and moan, but nobody listens. So I just voice my opinion by leaving and thus leaving my team in an even worse state. A lot of people voice their opinion by leaving the game when its badly stacked.

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Alright, here a little bit about what I think of this.
In the community we have about 40+ members now? Who all can get admin if they want, just send Saint a pm.
Crovax, that's you too I even think you already fixed you're admin.
Drop your console , type "bind [letter] sm_admin" without the quotes. Now if you press [letter] (here it's k in my tf2) and you have a wonderfull option of teamswitching players. It's wonderful Ppl tend to nag about it and some always nag bout the fact you could've at least warned them. We never bothered in the past, at least, I didn't and this was in the time of cs. I always figured ppl would have enough time to see themselves the game ain't goin fair, so if they haven't switched themselves to make teams fair, no warning necessary.
I advise you to use this. Next to that, if you are contributing enough to make a differ, you could always switch yourself. In this way, if we trust on good judgement of admins, things work out just fine. No need in quitting yourself, no need for others to quit.
I do advise you admins to use this for greater good and no personal gain. If we see someone using this for personal gain or get complaints, this will be looked into seriously and if we agree on the fact it not being for the greater good, you'll lose you're admin.
This has worked wonderfully in the past, certainly if you look at how many times there are admins of ours in the server, this should work now too. Just give it a go.

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Yeah bucky, but this solution was coded/posted after my post :p

its fine now, at least we can intervene.

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yeah, i already saw, but i used this oppurtunity to remind ppl about it and maybe a very very short guide on how you should use your admin power

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Is the switching done automatically - random ppl, or manually by the admins - whoever they choose. Because if it's the latter, it's quite subjective...

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Admins can pick who they switch. I don't see a problem with it to be honest. Either way a good player and a bad player will get switched sides.

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ok im for mixing up the teams and making them fair..... but

the other day we played almost a spa vs comm game on public and it was awesome! the teams were clearly 'stacked' but perfectly balanced etc, but we only found out after playing a couple of maps!... initially we were all saying "stacking" and "even the teams" without even thinking that maybe they were even already, we just looked at all the [SpA] tags and pointed the finger... the first few where a little unfair (only cos spa played so well, and the others of course) but it evened itself out.... if an admin had switched players around we wouldnt have had such an epic battle. (those that played will agree)

so, i suggest if 'stacking' does occur the admins should wait a few games first instead of picking on people and moving them where they please.

abusing this power may ruin the freedom we have as players to choose sides...

<3

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thats sort of the idea. We don't balance on names, we balance on gameplay.

The only problem is that on a lot of maps its 3 times win = switch map (the capture CP maps anyhow). So you can't wait for more then 1-2 rounds tbh. but depends on the map.

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yea true.... hmmmmm hard one

hahahah it's useless really, i guess it's all down to common sense. Hydro for example, the never ending painful map... you could have time to even those teams out?

BUT it must be extremely unbalabanced teams, cos the other side can come back and leads to a very good game... we mustn't remove the underdog factor of TF2, you know, a team totally killing the other side then a spy caps it for the 'losing' team... or even a huge turn around where the 'losing' side step up a gear and end up winning.... by taking this element out we'd lose a very satisfying part of playing and trying to win.

remember, there needs to be ups and downs, quick wins, huge loses, hard struggles.... epic games are very good, but it's nice to have a really good team and steam roll a bunch of noobs now and then too, also, to lose hard, you're forced to try new things.... we have a good thing, lets not break it

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Still stuff like that happens only once in a blu moon.

If I think things need to be mixed up I will.

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