Seriously, I'm getting annoyed at the 100000 ways valve is providing people with crits. Apperantly the base chance of 5-20% isn't enough. Now you need weapons that will insta crit when you meet certain requirements.

I mean the pyro had problems, but the alt fire and soldier rockets do full damage to soldier sort of fixed most of it. I think the new weapons for the medic and the pyro are a step in the wrong direction and valve will most likely continue along this road. I'm really getting turned off by TF2 now, because of the way valve is obsessed with letting everyone deal crits like there is no tomorrow.

They promised that the new weapons would not be better then the old ones, but clearly they are
The blutsauger is a no brainer over the needlegun. You up your chances of surviving by a lot! And anything that doesn't fire high burst damage at you will go down.

Critzieg, wow this one actually isn't better (this is a trend)

Ubersaw, another no brainer it will give you 25% ubercharge just for slapping a spy with it... great thing is you can probably get 50% charge because the spy needs 2 hits.

Backburner, another no-brainer for anyone who can play pyro half decent. You can crit people down in a second with this thing and also get 50 extra health coming down to a total of 225 (more than the soldier). If you are a bit careful about your movement this gun is in all ways better than the original flamethrower... even with the alt fire. Because in effect you can take 3 rockets now, enough time to burn the soldier to ashes when you are in front of him.

Flaregun, this one isn't that awesome... just like the critzieg. It has its uses but the shotgun probably is better. Especially if you go with the backburner/axetinguisher combo

Axetinguisher, another no brainer. Usually I flame a spy and then axe him to death.. this just made it a lot easier. Its plain old better, it beats the old one in every situation. Just because you can flame and make a garantueed crit.

I am really concerned about what the future holds, I think it will be more crits and that is something I won't like for sure. Of course I'm just a whiner and you guys might all think its awesome. I just won't be playing TF2 anymore soon.

(edit)
I'm not saying in any way that we should start up a new server, I just want to hear your opinion about the new weapons etc. So please don't only vote, also post your opinion...

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Crits are fine but Valve seems to be obsessed with them. At both updates most unlockables were crit related...
I would like the valve to remove the base 5%crit chance and make it only damage related.


With the backburner pyros will just run at the enemy and hope for a random flame crit (same as spy's facestabs...).
Pyro is fine without crits if you know how to play. You can't rush straight ahead of the enemies and expect to get kills
Now with the buckburner is pretty is to kill any class from behind. I killed a medic+heavy from behind in 1 sec with the crits. I don't know if that's "fair". Even a demoman/soldier can't kill them that fast.


I didn't select any option of the poll. They are both too "extreme".

Well, Pyro needed the alt fire. I always did fine as a pyro but with soldiers and demoman he had too much trouble, chances of you winning were always very slim. But now with the new weapons they have turned the pyro into a miniheavy with slightly less health, faster movement and twice as lethal.

The game is becoming more arcady with each patch. Oh and also everyone suddenly loves the pyro, where were all these people when the pyro didn't get his ticket to uberness.

Well another class I'll scratch of my list to play. Spy and Heavy are hopefully last for updates.

Baal will matches be played with unlock weapons or not? You might as well want to scratch me from pyro if they are allowed.

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

I think VALVe would have done a better job introducing new classes, rather then upgrade the excisting onces.

I don't like the alt fire. You can reflect 1 - 2 rockets but a soldier can send you 4. It's about the same for pyro as before. The only difference is that now he can survive but he hasn't got much more chances to kill the soldier.
- Close range: Pyro can kill the soldier as many times as before. The alt fire is pretty hard to dodge rockets without taking damage
- Medium-Long range: Pyro can easily deflect rockets but can't do anything with the flamethrower he has equipped .

Vs the demoman it's the same. Pyro most of the times could kill the demoman at close range.

The BackBurner simply rocks. 225 health for a pyro -more than a soldier. Buffed he gets 335 -more than a heavy. Count to this the crits he can get attacking from behind... You can get crits even attacking from the front and attack strafing at one side.

I wish they would remove normal crits from the backburner. The added health and 100% crits from behind is good enough.

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I think all the new unlockables is making TF2 go from a well balanced and fun game to pure crap. It's really ruining what I think is fun about the game.

We should have a server without crits or the new weapons, and make it 12 player. Oh, teh dream!

I vote server for classic TF2 - ie no unlocked weapons (as in no backburner etc)

Oh for people the people who thought the air gun wasn't any use - trying defending Gravelpit C and Steel against pyro. I was blown off top of C every time and we lost as a result.

G.

aint got tested them, just know that the pyros sending my crit rockets back is gay

You have to play at the war server some day then

+1

+1

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'Belgium, a country with many homos also have a pedophile party as far as i know.' - Violetblood

I would love a 12-16 player server without unlockable weapons...

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Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Well - I for my part love the new weapons and basically believe in Valve's infinite wisdom. ;-)

I mean, the gameplay stats are public (although I guess Valve has even more detailed stats) and all the buffing and nerfing that is going on is based solely on them. Also, I don't treat TF2 too seriously - I don't even think that it is a very good game for competitive gaming despite being team-based (although people can make leagues and whatnot for virtually anything ;-) because it was designed from ground up to be fun-oriented, easy to get into and the teamwork should emerge "naturally", not be reserved for clans, like in CS.

The Pyro was one of the least popular classes and had horrible points-per-hour and kills-per-hour ratios (the latter for an "offensive" class, of course). After the update the total play time of the Pyro increased massively (obviously - unlocking weapons etc.) but the other stats didn't change so drastically which basically means that Valve has managed to make the class more attractive to players without overpowering it or anything.

I think the only bad thing about the new weapons is that they come in separate packs - when every class will have had its updates everything will be as balanced as it was in the beginning. On the other hand I don't see how Valve could have chosen any other way of introducing the packs - releasing them all at once would require a titanic effort and wouldn't achieve what regular updates are achieving from a marketing viewpoint, that is, supplying Valve with a steady stream of new players and old ones that return to the game to see what's new long after TF2's release.

All in all I loved TF2 in its basic form - I already played it in the beta period - and I still love it after the Medic and Pyro packs. The Medic pack was messed up a bit but Valve seems to be learning from its mistakes - the achievements for the Pyro are far more sensible and the whole Pyro-craze has almost settled by now. Yes, I agree that Valve could have chosen to simply tweak the classes as they were but since they have taken another path I accept it.

We have to remember that it's not OUR game - it's Valve's game and the updates raise the sales of TF2 so even if you and I whine about the direction the company has taken and a few upset "old-schoolers" leave there will be like 10 new excited players for every one of us.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

Could server 4 be trialed for this - it's unused most of these days...

I haven't really tried to get the new weaps and my performance has improved over the last couple of months as people are just choosing a type just to get the achievements, rather than whats needed.

This will continue for at least the next year as valve slowly released stuff for each class.

The reason I will get around to it eventually is that some situations need a Kritzkreig rather than an uber. Part of the skill in the future will be selecting the correct combination for the situation and team needs. This makes the game deeper and more tactical in the long run --- just not right now.

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The stats below lie. I'm actually much much worse.

yeah they could come up with something else not related to crits as unlockables

Uhm - like what? =)

They introduce new maps, new weapons - not ALL are crit related (e.g. the Blutsauger, which has NO crits or the Ubersaw), the Compression Blast or Flare Gun for the Pyro - what else could they do to please the crowds? TF2 is undergoing one of the most exciting free update cycles I've seen since Guild Wars and people are still whining? Would you prefer BF2 updates that sometimes broke the game or required you to reinstall everything in the precisely right order?

I think that critical hits are a major part of the game and Valve stresses that with each update. Yes, it's true that it's annoying as hell when a newbie player gets you with a random critical rocket from across half the map but on the other hand that means that not even the most skilled players can dominate the game like e.g. in Counter-Strike (although we have to remember that your crit chance increases the better you are currently doing). Then again, I feel HUGE satisfaction when I see MY critical shots reaching a cowardly retreating player - when I follow my crit rocket slowly homing in on the target and watch the enemy explode in a shower of gibs.

TF2 is all about feelings - both positive and negative. The devs have stressed it many times as well. Why the freeze-cam shots on which you can taunt your enemy? Why the domination and revenge awards (I don't know about you but if I happen to be dominated my heart ALWAYS starts beating faster when I see my nemesis and I ALWAYS try to kill the player in question no matter what - especially if critical shots happen to make it easier ^^).

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

I dont really think they are too overpowered. I havent really noticed a difference between a pyro with a backburner and one without, a headshot or backstab will take em down just the same, and if a pyro is behind me its usually time to die.

Crits are just part of the game, much like spraying and praying in CS - Its annoying when somebody can randomly spray and get a hs on you, its the same when a heavy starts churning out sparkling red/blue bullets that smash your face apart. In a competetive game they turn them off, so when it actually matters theyre off, but when its just a larf theyre on!

i don't know if its überpowered, but the backburner is def. annoying when there are 100 pyros on the server (which is annoying itself).

the real problem i have with the unlocks is that i can't play on the public servers anymore... the medic unlocks were somewhat fun as i could just kill 100.000 of medics with ease (although the team-play was fucked then). with the pyro-update the whole gameplay was fucked up! i quit even before some rounds were finished as i either got burned all the time or won without a challenge (which happed before 2 but not as often).

i feel like i can only play half decent games on public servers in between updates! which means they fucked up the gamingexperience (for me). which is even worse as i love this game. and it is still great whenever there are enough cool people to play with.

i dunno - maybe we should consider class limits after the updates!

imho valve fucks up a pretty good game! &nd i don't give a fuck about getting more people to play it - all that matters to me is the fun i have while playing!

I totally agree with you... I'm forced to play on some other servers atm, cuz it's not fun anymore to play with this all pyro madness around on our servers. Playing TF2 just isn't fun atm because all of these pyros and their flames/crits... Class limits would help after every goddamn achievement update...

Luckily we have our matches where we can play without those pyros and their crits

SaintK and I have just talked about this and decided to put a class limitation on one of the servers.
We're thinking somewhere in the range of 3 or 4 of the class that was updated recently.

Server #1 will be restricted to 3 pyros for the time being.
Let's see how this will be accpeted by the community and then think about what the next steps are.

demm ftw

Finally, good decision guys

Note: backburner was still crit'ing even after you had turned round to face the pyro. Latest update has removed this bug. In addition some drop off has been added back in.

SaintK has probably posted this somewhere as update note in which case apologies for repetition.

They didn't feel overpowered last night, the flames still hurt but it didn't insta kill people who reacted to them.