Multi-Gaming Community
It is currently 20 Jun 2025, 11:42

All times are UTC+02:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2008, 18:56 
Offline
Community slut (13474)
User avatar
The fleet lay stretched out across the English Channel, mainsails billowing under an easterly wind, 20 ships in line abreast and 25 deep, filling the water between Dover and Calais.
Crowds gathered on the white cliffs of the English coast to watch.
But they were not cheering with pride and pleasure - because the display of naval power and military might they were witnessing was not theirs.
This armada was not an English one. It was from Holland and it was about to invade these shores.

Image

Tides of change: William of Orange launched a colossal armada to seize the throne from Catholic King James II
The year was 1688, a crucial one in our island history. The new king, James II, crowned jut three years earlier, was Roman Catholic, putting him at odds with the predominant Protestant faith of his subjects. And dangerously so.
Just a generation or two earlier, another king of England, Charles I, had fallen out with his people, and the result had been Civil War, ending with the monarch's head being chopped off.
Would the country be split in half again after only 40 years of peace? Would this dispute also have to be settled by war? And would James - Charles I's younger son - also have to be lopped off at the neck to save the nation?
The conventional answer to these questions is that the British cleverly saved themselves from a second disaster with a non-violent solution to the problem.
In what became known as the Glorious Revolution, James fled the country rather than fight as his father had done and, William of Orange, the elected ruler of the Dutch Republic and Protestant to his core, was invited to take over the throne.
But a new book by Professor Lisa Jardine, one of our most eminent academics, turns this picture of cosy regime change, handed down to us for the past 300-plus years, on its head.
For the truth is that this transition of power was not a matter of choice.
A warring William was coming, whether he was welcome or not - as that battle fleet massing out in the Channel showed all too clearly.
The Dutch leader had put to sea with 53 warships bristling with 1,700 cannon, a massive amount of firepower.
Behind came hundreds of transport ships carrying an army of 20,000 men, plus horses (7,000 of those), arms and equipment.
Ten fireships loaded with combustible materials were ready to be set ablaze and steered into the ranks of English ships if they dared oppose him.
This was a task force with only one intention - to conquer. No wonder the crowds on the English clifftops were silent.
They were watching the first invasion of this island since 1066.
And - though our history has rarely presented it as such - it was a successful invasion

Image

The Protestant King William of Orange triumphed over the Catholic forces of King James II on July 12, 1690
William of Orange did what, over the centuries, the Spanish with their armada, Napoleon and Hitler would all, in their time, attempt and fail to achieve - the conquest of Britain.
From early in 1688, he was secretly recruiting battle-hardened soldiers from Protestant armies across Europe and arranging gifts and loans from sympathetic bankers to pay for them.
His cause was two-fold. The first was political - his concern that James II's beliefs were about to bring a switch in Britain's foreign policy.
The French under the Sun King, Louis XIV, were troublesome enough already, but an alliance between potentially Catholic Britain and Catholic France meant William faced a threat from across the Channel, too.
Desperate to stave off the French, he planned his pre- emptive strike to make sure England stayed on side.
His second cause was entirely selfserving. Denied the dignity of being monarch in his republican homeland, his desire was to be king of England. He believed too that, with his connections, it should be his by right.
The English crown was a family affair for him. His wife, Mary, was James II's eldest daughter and, in the absence of sons, heir to the throne.
His marriage alone took William within a heartbeat of the English crown.
But he also had the royal blood of England and Scotland running richly in his own veins.
His mother was James's older sister, the king therefore his uncle and his own wife his cousin.
Given that he was also shrewd, wise and war-like, he could be forgiven for thinking that he was born to be king.
If the chance hadn't come, he would have taken it any way. But events in London gave him the excuse to act. And one event in particular - the birth of a baby boy.
The British tolerated their ageing king's unpopular religious preference in the belief that it would die with him.
On his death, they supposed, the crown would go to Princess Mary, Protestant daughter of his first marriage.
His second marriage - to the Catholic Maria of Modena - had in 15 years produced nothing but miscarriages, still births and deaths in infancy.

Image

Orangemen celebrate King William's victory with a yearly march in Northern Ireland
But on June 10, 1688, a healthy boy was born, and named James Francis Edward Stuart.
The pregnancy had been a matter of scandal, suspicion and downright disbelief from the time it was announced, not least because it was six years since her last one.
The size of "the Queen's belly" - or, rather, lack of it - was openly discussed and ridiculed.
Princess Anne (the king's other daughter from his first marriage, who was later to become queen) wrote to her sister, Princess Mary, saying that she thought their step-mother had on "a false belly".
The birth, rather than silence the gossiping, only served to intensify it. Palace intrigue, played out in public, reached fever pitch.
James, determined to legitimise the Catholic heir he had always wanted, brought forward 42 witnesses to testify to the Privy Council that the new-born boy was his bona fide son.
But the common assumption was that a live baby had been smuggled into the birthing bed in a warming pan and presented as the Queen's own.
Princess Anne was certain there had been foul play. With her suspicions, she had intended to be a "vigilant observer" of the birth, but had been away from London when the Queen apparently went into labour.
Had the birth been contrived to take place in her absence? To her sister she wrote of her "concern and vexation, for I shall never now be satisfied whether the child be true or false."
But by now, truth or falsity no longer mattered to the outcome. In The Hague, his capital, William of Orange saw that his chance of naturally succeeding to the English throne alongside his wife had been snatched away.
It was time for Plan B.
As the autumn of 1688 turned to winter, he activated his "Grand Design" to invade England. The forces which would carry it out began to muster on land and sea.
His vast invasion fleet set sail on November 1, out into the North Sea and then westwards into the Channel, its progress marked by threatening salutes of cannon fire.
Up on deck, regiments of soldiers stood in full formation, and trumpets and drums played martial music for hours on end in a highly effective display of "shock and awe".
The English ambassador in The Hague, who had picked up not a hint of the preparations, could scarcely believe the news he was now given that the Dutch intention was "an absolute conquest" of England.
The fleet made landfall at Torbay in Devon and troops began disembarking on November 5.
Since William was a master of the dark arts of spin and propaganda, the date was no accident.
It was Bonfire Night for the English, the anniversary of a Protestant triumph over Catholics, the conspirators of the Gunpowder Plot of 1605.
There was no army or militia to offer any resistance, just a few quizzical West Countrymen and women.
William came ashore in pomp under a banner proclaiming "For liberty and the Protestant religion" and made his progress through the countryside to cries of "God bless you", according to his chroniclers.
An old woman offered him a glass of mead. One of his entourage was struck by how all the women smoked pipes of tobacco, "without shame, even the very young, 13-and 14-year-olds".
Two hundred miles away, London was a city of rumours and unrest. It took three days for the news to arrive from Torbay, with the number of ships inflated to 700 and unconvincing excuses being offered for why the Navy had made no attempt to stop them.
The diarist John Evelyn noted his fear that this was "the beginning of sorrow, unless God in His mercy prevent it by some happy reconciliation of all dissensions among us".
Parliament and the court were in a permanent state of panic, made worse by William's painfully slow march from the West Country and the absence of real information.
It was the weather, the rain turning the roads to mud, rather than any active resistance that slowed him down.
Supporters did not flock to join him as he had been promised. But there was no opposition either.
Faced with their first invasion for six centuries (and, as it turned out, their last), the British people were hedging their bets.
Amid this deafening silence from his subjects, the King was powerless. He was suffering from severe nose bleeds, but crucially it was support that was flowing away.
Royal officials stayed at home rather than turn up for their duties. His administration crumbled. He sent his Queen and his baby son away to France.
But he stayed until, on December 17, he was told that an advance party of the elite Dutch Blue Guards had taken up positions in St James's Park.
In the dead of the night they escorted the king out of his own capital to confinement in Rochester Castle in Kent.
The next day, William of Orange, dressed all in white, made his formal, entry into London, welcomed by crowds at last showing enthusiasm.
"You come to redeeme our religion, laws, liberties and lives," they were reported as proclaiming. But the conqueror had taken no chances.
The Coldstream Guards, the Life Guards and all other English regiments had been ordered out of the city, and reluctantly they went.
The streets along which he passed in triumph were lined with Dutch soldiers.
King James avoided the fate of his father, Charles I, of being put on trial and humiliated.
A week later, his Dutch jailers looked the other way and friends smuggled him to France, were he lived in resentful exile for the rest of his life.
His place on the throne was taken by his daughter, Princess Mary, and her husband, William, in a joint monarchy.
London remained under military occupation for a further 15 months, and the presence of large numbers of heavily armed foreign troops on the streets caused some disquiet among the populace.
What was "this poore nation reduc'd to", the diarist John Evelyn asked in anguish.
But though he and others wrung their hands, they did not reach for their arms.
There was no wish to fight. The scars of the Civil War were too recent to risk another.
Rather than resist, the British people swallowed their pride and settled for a peaceful regime change.
They quickly came to accept and even love it, swayed by William's spin doctors, whose pamphlets smoothed over the constitutional wrinkles of what had in effect been a coup d'etat and converted a military conquest into the "Glorious Revolution" in defence of ancient freedoms.
It was the "spun" version of events that prevailed. A silence descended over the Dutch occupation of London, and pretty soon after, in the words of historian Jonathan Israel, "the whole business came to seem so improbable that by common consent, scholarly and popular, it was simply erased from the record".
This acquiescence to a foreignborn prince seizing the throne, was helped, Professor Jardine argues, because Britain and Holland had for many years shared a common cultural heritage.
In arts and architecture, science and technology, the two countries had become close, their bond sealed by their shared Protestant faith.
Hence, the invasion of one by the other did not seem so radical and dangerous. It was not as if the dreaded French or Spanish had taken over.
In the aftermath of the Dutch conquest, that cross-fertilisation increased but as very much a one-way traffic.
Dutch talent flowed into England, its effects still to be seen in painting, buildings and in the formal gardens that were a speciality of the Netherlands.
The incomers also brought banking methods that transformed London as a commercial centre.
The result was that Britain boomed, becoming a rich and powerful nation after 1688, while the Netherlands remained a European backwater.
It caused resentment in Holland that, in Jardine's words, their glory had been "plundered" by the British.
And, indeed, the enduring Dutch influence on the culture of this country has been remarkable.
Sadly it is not the whole story. Not all of the habits that the Dutch brought to Britain were beneficial. Their national drink, gin, very quickly outstripped beer.
Within half a century, half of the 15,000 watering holes in Georgian London were dens dispensing cheap and lethally strong "mother's ruin". The social consequences were catastrophic.
It is a curious footnote in the Dutch conquest of Britain 320 years ago - an invasion that, according to our history, never really happened - that one of its unintended imports was the curse of binge-drinking.


Top
   
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2008, 19:12 
Offline
Nerdish, tbh. (515)
User avatar
I am always wondering about those drawn pictures... did some painter just sit there watched the battle, and screamed HOLD! and started painting or something?

_________________
<@[SpA]DonDonDon> someones gotta love me, and that someone is me


Top
   
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2008, 19:14 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2026)
Retarded theory saint and biased. you forget that parliament invited him over as he was married to Mary - yes the stuart lineage. making him a viable heir to the throne, which at that time they wanted a strongly protestant king, not a catholic one in James II. The only reason he had forces was at parliaments request to stop any jacobite rebellions that wanted to reclaim the throne, as seen in the near future with James II and Bonnie prince charles who led jacobite rebellions from scotland to try and reclaim their side of the lineage.

Eat that ya schlag.


Top
   
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2008, 19:39 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2026)
Having accepted this declaration, William and Mary were offered the throne, and were crowned as joint monarchs in April of the same year. The Declaration of Right itself was later embodied in an act of parliament, now known as the Bill of Rights, on December 16, 1689.

The Bill of Rights laid out certain basic tenets for, at the time, all Englishmen. These rights continue to apply today, not only in England, but in each of the jurisdictions of the Commonwealth realms as well. The people, embodied in parliament, are granted immutable civil and political rights through the act, including:

* Freedom from royal interference with the law. Though the sovereign remains the fount of justice, he or she cannot unilaterally establish new courts or act as a judge.
* Freedom from taxation by Royal Prerogative. The agreement of parliament became necessary for the implementation of any new taxes.
* Freedom to petition the monarch.
* Freedom from the standing army during a time of peace. The agreement of parliament became necessary before the army could be moved against the populace when not at war.
* Freedom for Protestants to bear arms for their own defence, as suitable to their class and as allowed by law.
* Freedom to elect members of parliament without interference from the sovereign.
* Freedom of speech in parliament. This means that the proceedings of parliament can not be questioned in a court of law or any other body outside of parliament itself; this forms the basis of modern parliamentary privilege.
* Freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, as well as excessive bail.
* Freedom from fine and forfeiture without a trial.


In light of this - the securing of parliament's independence and power over the monarchy in (to begin with 1967 when it was rejected by james II, 1688 it was rebrought foward after James II's abdication of the throne and signed before the coronation of Queen Mary and her husband William.( note the Joint monarchs.) What self respecting "conqueror" would allow the "conquered" to lay out the terms of his new found kingdom?


Top
   
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2008, 22:09 
Offline
Geek (913)
User avatar
I am not reading that huge wall now, but if it consists saint epic campaign about he hating the Brits, i sure read it, plz confirm this for me whehe


Top
   
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2008, 22:12 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2546)
User avatar
*rows up the river Thames with his trusty notspeedboat to steal the English flagship* ~


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 13:13 
Offline
Geek (975)
User avatar
Interesting - if history is written by the victors what does this tell you about this invasion?

The incomers also brought banking methods that transformed London as a commercial centre.

Ahh so you are to blame for the Credit Crunch!


The result was that Britain boomed, becoming a rich and powerful nation after 1688, while the Netherlands remained a European backwater.
It caused resentment in Holland that, in Jardine's words, their glory had been "plundered" by the British.


We're not stupid you know :-)

_________________
The stats below lie. I'm actually much much worse.


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 13:36 
Offline
Community slut (13474)
User avatar
The bottom line in this story is not who came out on top, but simply who DID succesfully invaded your island! :mrgreen: :18


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 14:15 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2546)
User avatar
[SpA]JediLardMaster wrote:
while the Netherlands remained a European backwater.
you do realize that during the 17th century the Dutch fleet was 4 times bigger than the French/Spanish/English/random other strong countries fleet combined.. and that we were in a war that last 80 years.. and in this war we only became stronger and stronger.. can you name another country that prospered beyond belief during a war, a 80 year long war at that o:

so backwater? LOL


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 14:27 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (1440)
User avatar
o.O

Guys... the dutch nation didnt have their own fleets, they were fleets made through shipping companies like the VOC and garbage like that. The actual fleets that did fight in the war were small. The fleets the shipping companies used were actually 2 defend their valuable Cargo, like the ALL IMPORTANT SPICES. So if needed these companies were "hired" 2 fight or had 2 open a route so they could do business.

And yes the dutch ravaged the english fleets. But Portugal had one of the strongest naval forces.

_________________
Of all the things I lost, I miss my mind the most.


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 14:32 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2546)
User avatar
The VOC were allowed to wage war as they deemed fit, in name of the Dutch nation and that's good enough for me :D


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 14:38 
Offline
Community slut (13474)
User avatar
Quote:
The Dutch leader had put to sea with 53 warships bristling with 1,700 cannon, a massive amount of firepower.
Behind came hundreds of transport ships carrying an army of 20,000 men, plus horses (7,000 of those), arms and equipment.
8) i call that a fleat tbh... no matter were it comes from! :mrgreen:


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 16:31 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (1440)
User avatar
The VOC was the main reason the dutch were strong. They had independant armies with their own `investers`. Why do u think we still have the age-old provincials(example North-Holland, South Holland, Utrecht). All of them had their own army and income. Seeing where money could be gained they "helped" or ignored other provincial states. Same goes for naval forces, Prince william actually was more of a dictator (srry dutchies, my own opinion) and forced the provincial states to deliver ships and soldiers. Ofc there were provincial states who were loyal and didnt need "convincing".

And the VOC fleets made it hard for the english 2 counterattack anyway :)

_________________
Of all the things I lost, I miss my mind the most.


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 16:51 
Offline
Geek (975)
User avatar
[SpA]futari wrote:
[SpA]JediLardMaster wrote:
while the Netherlands remained a European backwater.
you do realize that during the 17th century the Dutch fleet was 4 times bigger than the French/Spanish/English/random other strong countries fleet combined.. and that we were in a war that last 80 years.. and in this war we only became stronger and stronger.. can you name another country that prospered beyond belief during a war, a 80 year long war at that o:

so backwater? LOL
I was actually quoting Saint :-)

_________________
The stats below lie. I'm actually much much worse.


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 17:52 
Offline
Geek (695)
User avatar
tl;dr: Saint can't accept that his country sucks and takes it out on the brits.


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 18:39 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (1440)
User avatar
IMO, i havent seen any country has is more devious, backstabbing, selfish and warlike like the brits. (b4 WW2) After 1950 england was far 2 weakened 2 actually b a worldpower :)


OK, the vikings were even worse, but they didnt really have a country :)

_________________
Of all the things I lost, I miss my mind the most.


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 22:16 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2026)
Britian = win


Who had the biggest empire? We did
Who kicked the germans out of all your euro countires TWICE? We did (with a little help from our rebellious colony ofc.)
Who managed to not have a revolution which turned our country upside down? We did
Who managed to keep an effective system of government for hundreds of years? We did

Who failed at all these things? The rest of you.

We have a right to be snobbish and horrible - because we are above you euro's wcwb though you may not accept it unless we are bailing you out of some war or crisis >.>

P.S. Im sorry if this causes offense in any way, foward all complaints to my PM.


Top
   
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2008, 22:52 
Offline
Geek (975)
User avatar
[SpA]Greasy_greabo wrote:
Britian = win


Who had the biggest empire? We did
Who kicked the germans out of all your euro countires TWICE? We did (with a little help from our rebellious colony ofc.)
Who managed to not have a revolution which turned our country upside down? We did
Who managed to keep an effective system of government for hundreds of years? We did

Who failed at all these things? The rest of you.

We have a right to be snobbish and horrible - because we are above you euro's wcwb though you may not accept it unless we are bailing you out of some war or crisis >.>

P.S. Im sorry if this causes offense in any way, foward all complaints to my PM.

LMAO

_________________
The stats below lie. I'm actually much much worse.


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2008, 08:35 
Offline
Nerdish, tbh. (416)
User avatar
Greasy For Prime Minister...

Greasy - 1
[SpA] - 0

_________________
"Destiny finds those who listen, fate finds the rest"


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2008, 09:43 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (4896)
Can't we all just agree that Scotland takes a great big steamy dump on every other country and just leave this thread be?

This shit'll tear us apart y'all!


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2008, 10:32 
Offline
Crap at posting (31)
User avatar
[SpA]Greasy_greabo wrote:
Who managed to not have a revolution which turned our country upside down? We did
Psst, English Civil War, we just had our revolution a lot earlier and made it a lot bloodier.


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2008, 16:33 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2026)
psst, english civil war wasnt a revolution :18 it was (heres the good bit) a civil war :mrgreen:


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2008, 16:38 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2359)
User avatar
Wasn't the original point that England did get succesfully invaded?

I say lock the topic, since it just shows why the EU doesnt work. People are still far too nationalistic about their country.

Besides, when you think about it, its funny that the Netherlands had its golden age in the time where all other european nations were reforming to the nation state? Hmm, makes me feel like reading some articles again I had to read for political geography. People being proud on some "dutch" "english" man who didn't even feel "dutch" or "english" back then is just funny. Nationalism only leads to hate and mistrust, and thats why I'm a firm supporter of the EU. The first and the second war at least partly happend because people were so proud of their country and thought they were better than all others blablabla. I'm personally hoping that the EU prevents something stupid like that from ever happening again...And thats why i'm worried about these extreme right and left wing groupings that want countries to bail out of the EU blablabla.

CAN'T we ALL just get ALONG

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do


Top
   
PostPosted: 04 Oct 2008, 22:17 
Offline
Crap at posting (31)
User avatar
[SpA]Greasy_greabo wrote:
psst, english civil war wasnt a revolution :18 it was (heres the good bit) a civil war :mrgreen:
Psst, Revolution:
"2. Sociology. A radical and pervasive change in society and the social structure, esp. one made suddenly and often accompanied by violence."

Guess what the English Civil War was part of, *gasp*, The English Revolution.
It's hardly coincidential that it layed the ground for The Glorious Revolution.


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2008, 22:13 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2026)
2000AD wrote:
[SpA]Greasy_greabo wrote:
psst, english civil war wasnt a revolution :18 it was (heres the good bit) a civil war :mrgreen:
Psst, Revolution:
"2. Sociology. A radical and pervasive change in society and the social structure, esp. one made suddenly and often accompanied by violence."

Guess what the English Civil War was part of, *gasp*, The English Revolution.
It's hardly coincidential that it layed the ground for The Glorious Revolution.

psssst , there was no radical change in social structure or government - and it wasnt sudden :O

There is no such thing as the "english revolution" its just a term used by marxist historians who think taht the english civil war was a class struggle, when if you actually look at who was involved it isnt divided across class lines, it was divided by religious lines QQ much. Revisionist historians ftw.

The glorious revolution was indeed even less of a revolution, as it was an abdication of the throne by James II, while the monarchy was replaced by an invited related foreign protestant monarch.

Now I shall bask in my glory.

*Bask*


Top
   
PostPosted: 05 Oct 2008, 22:16 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2026)
[SpA]Crovax20 wrote:
Wasn't the original point that England did get succesfully invaded?

I say lock the topic, since it just shows why the EU doesnt work. People are still far too nationalistic about their country.

Besides, when you think about it, its funny that the Netherlands had its golden age in the time where all other european nations were reforming to the nation state? Hmm, makes me feel like reading some articles again I had to read for political geography. People being proud on some "dutch" "english" man who didn't even feel "dutch" or "english" back then is just funny. Nationalism only leads to hate and mistrust, and thats why I'm a firm supporter of the EU. The first and the second war at least partly happend because people were so proud of their country and thought they were better than all others blablabla. I'm personally hoping that the EU prevents something stupid like that from ever happening again...And thats why i'm worried about these extreme right and left wing groupings that want countries to bail out of the EU blablabla.

CAN'T we ALL just get ALONG

Im all for the EU as long as it doesnt effect parliamentary soveriengty and the courts independence in the UK without a fair voting system in which the UK dont get fooked over by vetoes from most countries which will get advantages from certain EU laws (e.g. Farming/ fishing laws which profit spain and france but fuck the UK over)

SO basically, no the EU can go away from the UK as its biased and doesnt work the same for differently economically developed and directioned countries.

*bask more*


Top
   
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2008, 08:00 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (2359)
User avatar
[SpA]Greasy_greabo wrote:
[SpA]Crovax20 wrote:
Wasn't the original point that England did get succesfully invaded?

I say lock the topic, since it just shows why the EU doesnt work. People are still far too nationalistic about their country.

Besides, when you think about it, its funny that the Netherlands had its golden age in the time where all other european nations were reforming to the nation state? Hmm, makes me feel like reading some articles again I had to read for political geography. People being proud on some "dutch" "english" man who didn't even feel "dutch" or "english" back then is just funny. Nationalism only leads to hate and mistrust, and thats why I'm a firm supporter of the EU. The first and the second war at least partly happend because people were so proud of their country and thought they were better than all others blablabla. I'm personally hoping that the EU prevents something stupid like that from ever happening again...And thats why i'm worried about these extreme right and left wing groupings that want countries to bail out of the EU blablabla.

CAN'T we ALL just get ALONG

Im all for the EU as long as it doesnt effect parliamentary soveriengty and the courts independence in the UK without a fair voting system in which the UK dont get fooked over by vetoes from most countries which will get advantages from certain EU laws (e.g. Farming/ fishing laws which profit spain and france but fuck the UK over)

SO basically, no the EU can go away from the UK as its biased and doesnt work the same for differently economically developed and directioned countries.

*bask more*
It still comes down to nationalism and big ego's all over Europe. Thats one of the reasons you want court independence blablabla and they want money for their farming.

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do


Top
   
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2008, 08:11 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (1242)
User avatar
[SpA]SaintK wrote:
The bottom line in this story is not who came out on top, but simply who DID succesfully invaded your island! :mrgreen: :18
yeeeeaaaah.... you're about 700 late for the invasion party that the norwegian/danish people threw when we invaded the small island on the other side of the pond.

but you know...... welcome to the club.

_________________
[SpA]Revenge "Wheres the element of surpise :/"

[SpA]Mint "IN.... MY....PANTS"

[SpA]Minimoose "Revenge is going to jump out of your pants?"


Top
   
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2008, 08:24 
Offline
Community slut (13474)
User avatar
[SpA]Mint wrote:
[SpA]SaintK wrote:
The bottom line in this story is not who came out on top, but simply who DID succesfully invaded your island! :mrgreen: :18
yeeeeaaaah.... you're about 700 late for the invasion party that the norwegian/danish people threw when we invaded the small island on the other side of the pond.

but you know...... welcome to the club.
Hey, we're brothers anyhow, our countries 8)


Top
   
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2008, 08:36 
Offline
Has no REAL life! (1242)
User avatar
that is true, Denmark and Netherlands have always been good terms, and in many ways very much the same, but I think that goes for all countries and netherland, since your country is a good mix of cultures from all the surrounding countries

anyway netherland is in my heart <3

_________________
[SpA]Revenge "Wheres the element of surpise :/"

[SpA]Mint "IN.... MY....PANTS"

[SpA]Minimoose "Revenge is going to jump out of your pants?"


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC+02:00


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited