Before any kind of discussion begins, let's give the definition of griefing.

Griefing is the behavior of a player which negatively impacts the experience for other players by abusing certain game mechanics in a way not intended. Written by yours truly with thanks to wikipedia for some wording.

And by abusing a certain game mechanic that would also count spamming (mic or text). It's supposed to be used for talk and for bitching about how everyone else is terrible and how it's all saint's fault ( hurr hurr) and not for pointless texts.

And by abusing a certain game mechanic that also means engineer climbing, which is (sometimes) enforced on our servers. In the MOTD it says, and I quote, "Do not use buildings to get places not intended for you to get to." Which brings me to my first point.

Engy and Spy are the best buddies after the update

You have probably noticed where I'm going. Spy teleporting into restricted spawn areas is technically against our rules, and so should be cross-team cooperation - that would clarify most possible griefing (ie. engie building teleports to restricted spawn areas) as well as the more implausible kinds (teleports leading directly to enemy sentries for example - but that would be hard to verify because it can be a douchebag team blu team engie, douchebag red team engie building sentries so the exit doesn't get broken, or douchebag both engies, cooperating).

So I ask you, as a friend, won't you stop this grief?

The creator of the video in the thread you linked to probably will not read this. Sorry to disappoint you.

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All roads may lead to Rome, but all Wikipedia pages eventually get you to the Third Reich. - m3n

I think he refers to the fact that *some people* (you know who you are) were doing this on our servers, inspired by the video. I really wish they did it somewhere else. :-P

And yes, I'd kick and later ban anybody doing this.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

Wherever he was playing, I don't care. But I do care what happens on SpA servers, which is why I posted.


Edit: Also I have a screenshot of a guy who did this a few days ago on steel. If anybody wants to do first blood, I'll post it.

That griefing horribly failed if it was the one you mean.

Even if it did it's still griefing and it should be punished to the fullest extent of the admin mod.

Also I think he managed to get 1 or 2 stabs.

And the engineer did absolutely nothing that round (I think he did play a bit in the next one)

Then I kicked him

we kick and ban for exploiting. People who intentionally screw the game can fuck off tbh. if i see em they get kick/banned straight away.

from now on my douchebaggery (what little there was of it) will be reserved for other servers (if I feel the need) and my apologies to anyone that pissed off by it.

but yeah. only a little in the first place anyway

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ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: true genius
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: doesn't make sense
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: till you're senseless

Valve should of perhaps thought of this scenario, and uses their thinky brain things to instant kill players who magically appear in enemy spawns.

"that's against my human rights as a player!"

Day of Defeat had magic machine guns that shot you up, it worked for that.

How hard is it to add a zone like that to existing maps? *shrugs*

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Computer is fixed. That is all.

TFC has that too. Dunno why they didnt implement that in their own maps in the first place (I think I played some customs before that allowed you to enter the enemy spawn but it would instakill you - eg ctf_well_classic)

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All roads may lead to Rome, but all Wikipedia pages eventually get you to the Third Reich. - m3n

Or they could just add a no-tele-exit-magic-layer in the spawn areas of the maps that are affected by this :OOOO

I never understood why some maps have it and some don't. Isn't it just as important to get back into the fight as quick as possible regardless of map?

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Comfortably Numb

I think Valve will fix it, so don't whine about it too much - it makes sense to build teleporter ENTRANCES close to the spawn on attack/defense style maps because that makes Engineers a very important addition on the attacking side.

However, let's not forget that it's a GRIEFING technique. If Valve were to eliminate all possibilities of griefing from the game, we wouldn't be able to play it at all. This particular technique requires the cooperation of someone from the enemy team so it's not as if this could happen "by accident".

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

You got no idea how often I managed to build an exit instead of an entrance in fornt of the spawn and only realised it when we were already at the front

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All roads may lead to Rome, but all Wikipedia pages eventually get you to the Third Reich. - m3n

this happens to often one time i even build a sentry instead of a exit

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"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving."

I have not once, but twice, built an exit that goes to the complete opposite side of badlands of where I wanted it to go. (what? it's a symmetrical map, and those big ol' spires are identical!).

one of those times, it actually cost my team the game when half of them started wondering where the attacking team was, and why the point wasn't being captured when they stood on it.

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ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: true genius
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: doesn't make sense
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: till you're senseless

you mean badlands?

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"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving."

indeed I do senor green. *fixes*

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ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: true genius
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: doesn't make sense
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: till you're senseless

Thats just your team being idiotic, pretty much that can help them get into a nice tactical position for spies and scouts.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Maybe not being able to place tele exits in spawn?

I'll abuse this thread which is actually pretty pointless for a question.

On goldrush, stage 2, I go engie, build and upgrade a tele. We cap first point and then I build the teleporter exit on the first floor at the window on right and as soon as it's used, the exit explodes. Why the hell does that happen. I never figured it out and it's sometimes super duper irritating.

Bug, happens all the time.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Does the window have a frame? If there isnt enough space above the exit for people to materialize, the exit blows up.

Is using melee griefing ? Cause yesterday we were meleeing and powing people with Mr Giggles and InvisibleFish and Spikespiegel came, and told Fish to "stop being useless or kick" cause he was using melee. In fact we were doing quite well, and nobody else was complaining and few maps later most players on the servers were involved and we had 8 punching heavies in our team defending intel at turbine

Well spike thinks it is, i don't.
I'm laughinh my ass off at these moments, and spike gets pissed off

So i just switch to another server if i like to do melee and spike comes along.

So everyone stays happy :p

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We Shall Not Be Moved!

Hahaha, I remember exiting spawn on pipeline and finding 2 heavies *pow!*-ing right outside the door, that was sooo funny.

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Comfortably Numb

Yeah, yesterday was really funny with all those heavies running around and meleeing the crap out of everyone. <3
And I had fun putting arrows into their heads!

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Ze Ãœbermensch

if mass melee is griefing, then you can kick most of the server for grieifing tbh.

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ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: true genius
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: doesn't make sense
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: till you're senseless

Sure, melee can be fun once in a while, but only up to a certain point.
You have to know when to stop ;)

What Murk said in the first post is crucial;

Griefing is the behavior of a player which negatively impacts the experience for other players by abusing certain game mechanics in a way not intended.

Certain people have a very crappy attitude towards their playstyle, somewhere in the area of "I play however I like, who are you to tell me how to play?".
The thing is that TF2 is based around teamplay (or just plain luck on publics :p) to win, and if you're one of those who only melee and jerk around, then you're
not contributing to anything besides your own fun. This can be considered griefing, which I think it is if it's a consistent behavior. Alot of people get pissed when
someone plays like this, and I fully agree with them. You're just wasting a player slot on that server.

On the other side, we don't like to tell people how to play. However, we set certain limits to how much you can "do whatever you want".
What people don't always seem to remember is that playing on the SpA servers is not a right, it's a privilege. It's far from a democracy, and
the norms of society pretty much doesn't exist. The only thing you as players have to do is follow the server rules and everything is fine.