I am so confused with your server rules. First there is your philosophy, that we should play TF2 the way it was intended by Holy Valve. So we are not allowed to build stuff on the roof of Gravel Pit B, which is ridiculous, obviously, because Valve had plenty of time (1.5 years) to "fix" this. But they didn't. Also I don't believe Valve stated, that the Engineer shouldn't be able to jump onto his own buildings. Link?
Anyway. Last time I played Turbine on one of your servers, I wanted to go off Engie. I like to put my base behind the corner on the way to the enemy intel. But all I get is a "Heck, no!" and I am forced to chose another class. We are not allowed to play Engie on CTF maps? Why not? Because Valve doesn't want us to? No, because YOU don't like it. Well, I don't like Spies. Why not ban them, too?
Also, the class restrictions are annoying, when you are the first sniper on your team, and a couple of minutes later you suddenly respawn as a Heavy, because some guy with immunity just felt like sniping. So what do I do? Buy immunity and be an ass myself.

Please, think over your server rules, and let your guests play the game the way they like to play it.

Good God...

Another one of these threads.

Please donate a lot of money to us so we can pay for hosting the servers and then you can make your own rules on servers set up just for you.

Yes, Valve said Engineers aren't supposed to jump on their buildings - I could provide you with a link since one of the designers said that but can't be arsed to spend time on finding that since if you want to play on somebody's servers you should accept their rules - especially since they have been discussed over and over and over again.

Ah - as to the Engineer limit - we found through countless hours of gameplay and collected stats that Engineers on CTF maps lead to stalemates, boring matches and empty servers.
Yes - the management made that call but they're the bosses around here and like I said if you don't like it here - there are thousands of other servers out there - or you can pay for your own servers as well.

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War does not determine who is right - only who is left. - Bertrand Russell

Our server have its player slots raised, and the result of that is a near 100% stalemate on every ctf map.
This is the reason why engineers are reduced to zero on maps of that playstyle, and I'm pretty sure the majority enjoys the change.

As with class limits, this is necessary to not have excessive players of one class, specifically spy/sniper/engineer as having too many can
make or break the game. Letting people buy class limit immunity/reserved slot etc using spapoints is a way to "reward" regular players who
spend time on our servers. You're not an ass for using it yourself, you earned it by spending time on our servers.


It's all about trying to balance the game; the more players there are, the harder it gets.

Yeah. What he said.
And him.

medics are the ones carring you, no matter what, you cant win without medics, but you cant live with them, fucking gay mint not healing me adafdgafgfggaagadgagdahffhghghshshg

Not wanting to become "one of them" - you know....the ones that whinge and bitch but....what harm does having 1 (singular, individual, lonesome and so forth) engineer? as has been said many-a-time in her already engineers are a class much like every other, with strengths and weakness, for example:

Strength
Sentry Gun
Dispenser

Weakness
Vunerable in open
Vunerable to spies
Vunerable to demoman and Snipers

Meaning no matter what, a single engineer WILL NOT result in a stalemate IF a team are playing the game properly

Thoughts?

^this

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All roads may lead to Rome, but all Wikipedia pages eventually get you to the Third Reich. - m3n

The problem is you can't rely on people to play the game properly, why do people want to play engineer so much anyway, most of them just sit by their sentry/dispenser pressing mouse 1 for the whole match, there are like 3 decent engineers on our servers who actually make it interesting by leaving their stuff occasionally and fighting with shotgun. Its even more interesting when engineers just have a level 1 sentry and actually kill with a shotgun, at least it requires more skill.

Turbine
1) They aren't that vulnerable to spies, especially on certain regular sentry spots on turbine.
2) They aren't vulnerable to snipers on a lot of spots on turbine (most actually)
3) A lone demoman will find it hard to take down most of the regular sentry spots, especially with another 12 people attacking him.
4) An uber demoman can be useless, since it is easy for soldiers/pyro's to stop them from getting near a sentry, also you almost always have to uber early due to the size of the server, so that reduces the chances even more.
5) After using the uber on the sentry you have to kill everyone else, now this is very unlikely, so you will get forced back.
6) Engineers can get sentries up relatively quickly if they have a team supporting them.

2Fort
1) It stops scouts and spies from getting out with the intel
2) It stops people from getting to the intel with an ubercharge to protect themselves
3) It stops people going behind the snipers to kill them and let their team push forward without getting headshot
4) It encourages camping on a map where pushing is the main objective
5) It's lame when an engineer builds outside of your base and your team is too crap to do anything about it
6) Once the sentry is destroyed it can be rebuilt in seconds because the map is so cramped with ammo packs in various places

Minimoose
1) Has valid points
2) Is very cool
3) Has a giant package
4) Has various other packages
5) Has a mug on his desk
6) Has not run out of pringles
7) Had a protein shake today
9) Hates most of TF2
10) Doesn't know why he plays TF2
11) Gets frustrated easily
12) Doesn't mean most of the things he says while he is frustrated
13) Missed out 8 because it forms a smilie
14) Thinks this list is getting silly
15) Wanted the list to end on a multiple of 5

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

The main problem is that the ctf maps are stupidly designed. One sentry should not be allowed to cover both paths to the intel. On 2fort it's even worse as the sentry position is right outside spawn.

I really don't understand why people are so keen on turning ctf maps into stalemates.

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Comfortably Numb

The problem with the engineer simply is that it does require next to zero input from the player. Build a dispenser, build a sentry and enter "+duck" and "+attack" in console is all it takes to get into the top3 on a 12v12 public server on lets say dustbowl, or goldrush.

If they made the engineer just a bit more like he was/is in Team Fortress Classic/Fortress Forever, the engineer surely wouldnt be as noob-friendly anymore. I hope they make something like an additional Building PDA for the Engy-Update that will (re-)introduce another version of the sentry gun & dispenser.
Features would be:

-Weakened Sentry Gun in terms of fire power and "health"
-Weakened Dispenser in terms of "health"
-Dispenser dont supply health anymore, only ammo & metal
+ ~3-4 seconds build time for a lvl 1
+ Upgrading the sentry gun only takes 1 hit while holding 200 metal, instead of the current 8 minimum
+ ~1-2 seconds build time for a dispenser

I'd use this kind of SG & Disp. tbh.

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All roads may lead to Rome, but all Wikipedia pages eventually get you to the Third Reich. - m3n

Right on. It's a bit silly that one sg can cover both ways :/
I don't think engineers need that much changing, i think they work well on most maps as well as being a key class for holding areas and keeping the enemy from pushing back to easily, and also thereby key targets for your team to take down. I like the way they give the game a bit more strategic depth or what to call it. So yea, I think the engineers are rather fine (we'll see what happens with them in the engy-pack though ;) in contrast to 2fort which seems to have some badly designed areas :/
Hope someone will make some good changes to the map and have it been made official now.

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"There is a simple, logical explanation... and there is nothing under the bed.”

I agree with Relentless and I'm really looking forward to the engie update as I hope they'll introduce items that'll make the class more dynamic, giving you the power to surpise and kill oponents, not camp the same spot for a whole map.

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Comfortably Numb

Engineers <3 I love them, really do. A well played engineer is such a big addition to any team.

However, this change has made the ctf maps so much more fast paced and dynamic.
People actually move out of their base now! *gasp*


But one problem that arise from this is that people go demoman instead and camp the intel. And that's all they do.
Alot of demomen isn't exacly better than a couple of demomen and a couple of engineers.



.. demomen should be hard capped as well on ctf maps! :p

Also, disable snipers on 2fort . They are just camping at the sniper decks.

Agree with Lacop, they move the fight in sewers (I'm a litlle claustrophobic and also don't like water,I prefer beer)

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BAM!
"Player with nothing to live for" - PsychoStats

But someone has to defend intel, or we would end any ctf map in 6-7 minutes ( as happened not long ago @ turbine ). I went demoman defending intel 2 days ago, and score 19 defenses in one round - 4 or 5 scouts were just running into my stickies protecting intel

Hey, Saint never told me about that

That depends on how good the demo is. If his stickies are around the intel and he's left only with 4 pipes to defend himslef, he's pretty much dead.

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Comfortably Numb

Not if you sticky jump onto the structures above intel @ turbine, it works surprisingly well

When there's no more engineers people tend to jump to the next best thing, which on ctf maps (especially turbine, 2fort doesn't count as it sucks ass) would be demomen.
But we can't continue the limit progress forever :p

I think it's pretty nice as it is, ORRRR maybe limit demomen to 2-3 on ctf maps as well.

Nah I havent seen more than 3 demos on turbine, and number of intel captures are sky rocketing

It is awesome, it actually lets people play the class that excels at ctf, which of course is the scout. I haven't had any problem with demomen actually.

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a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig