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[SpA]moPP
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 18:21 
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It's still not fixed!

One session;
8 kills 0 deaths = -39.53 skill
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sebas
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 18:26 
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Hey man, you have too many points anway. :ugly: :P

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[SpA]moPP
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 19:12 
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But I'm only thinking about those poor souls who doesn't have that many points!
That, and I'm starting to like Dead Ringer:p
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Bartg
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 19:48 
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Psychostats are shitty, they wont recognize kills properly, and I could play 24h/day and I would still loose points on daily basis, since when youre in top 20-30 you can only gain points by constantly killing players above you, which is impossible since some of them are inactive, and most players on server will be placed below you in the stats :ugly:
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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 22:57 
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Bartg wrote:
Psychostats are shitty, they wont recognize kills properly, and I could play 24h/day and I would still loose points on daily basis, since when youre in top 20-30 you can only gain points by constantly killing players above you, which is impossible since some of them are inactive, and most players on server will be placed below you in the stats :ugly:
You can gain points by killing people below you, how do you think I go up in skill? If I can go up in skill anyone else should be able to.

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[SpA]moPP
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 23:25 
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Would be impossible to gain ranks if not :p

But the current stats are pretty messed up.
My last session resulted in 117 kills, 19 deaths (almost all the kills were by DR spy) but I only got +3 points.


Not that it matters at the end of the day, but it's just about principle. Things should work in a community this big, since
alot of people enjoy stats. Like that whore Moose.
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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 13 Jul 2009, 23:45 
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I don't pay any attention to my stats until someone brings up a thread moaning about them :D

Image

:mrgreen:

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[SpA]Blackhawk
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 10:15 
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I installed an user patch from the PS forum to replace my own hack.

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Bartg
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 15:00 
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[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Bartg wrote:
Psychostats are shitty, they wont recognize kills properly, and I could play 24h/day and I would still loose points on daily basis, since when youre in top 20-30 you can only gain points by constantly killing players above you, which is impossible since some of them are inactive, and most players on server will be placed below you in the stats :ugly:
You can gain points by killing people below you, how do you think I go up in skill? If I can go up in skill anyone else should be able to.
I cant go up, one day I can gain 5 skill points, and next day I will drop 100 points for no reason.
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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 15:28 
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Well there is a reason, because it's worked out by a formula, probably your just unlucky about who you kill and who you're killed by.

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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 16:00 
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[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Well there is a reason, because it's worked out by a formula, probably your just unlucky about who you kill and who you're killed by.
Which is retarded, like I always add, since TF2 isn't Counter-Strike and skill shouldn't be so closely related to who you kill.

Especially considering how long TF2 has been out on the market you can't just assume that players new to our servers are automatically noobs you should LOSE points for unless you maintain a 10:1 kill ratio.

To put on my broken record again: the only viable skill indicator is points (as awarded by TF2 itself) divided by gameplay time.

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Last edited by Lim-Dul on 14 Jul 2009, 16:13, edited 2 times in total.

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Bartg
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 16:03 
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[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Well there is a reason, because it's worked out by a formula, probably your just unlucky about who you kill and who you're killed by.
Could be, as Lim says its retarded, since I can probably make 100.000 kills and still be stuck around 20th place :ugly:
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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 16:15 
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[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Well there is a reason, because it's worked out by a formula, probably your just unlucky about who you kill and who you're killed by.
Which is retarded, like I always add, since TF2 isn't Counter-Strike and skill shouldn't be so closely related to who you kill.

Especially considering how long TF2 has been out on the market you can't just assume that players new to our servers are automatically noobs you should LOSE points for unless you maintain a 10:1 kill ratio.

To put on my broken record again: the only viable skill indicator is points (as awarded by TF2 itself) divided by gameplay time.
Well pretty much we need the stats for various plugins, and if someone wants to design a better system then they can :P

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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 16:21 
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[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
Well pretty much we need the stats for various plugins, and if someone wants to design a better system then they can :P
The stats themselves aren't bad and make for an interesting read - it's the skill indicator that's bullshit. ;-)

Alternate ways to calculate skill have been proposed for ages, with the points divided by time with a specific start cut-off (e.g. 1 or 2 hours of gameplay on our servers) getting the most support - nobody cared or cares enough to implement it though. ;-)

It should actually be easy enough to change since both the points and the gameplay time are tracked and such a system is actually much, much simpler than the current one with relative kills, specific awards for certain actions etc. - I think Blackhawk said a while ago that Psychostats supports implementing your own skill formula out of the box...

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[SpA]Blackhawk
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 16:53 
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[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Blackhawk said a while ago that Psychostats supports implementing your own skill formula out of the box...
You can define your own skill formula. If you know what you want, feel free to implement it as a Perl function. ;)

@ Points / hour: Although it sounds fair the skill stuff will get pretty useless as you won't be able to diversify the skill enough. Points per hour are limited by the overall system - like you cannot make more than 150 (<-- random guess) points in 30mins) - which would lead to 0 and 300 points as the limits. Putting 18.000 players into this... I don't know... you'd have to take like 4 decimal places into account to get a nice distribution. In addition IIRC the points aren't tracked at all... the stats are based on log entries... so you'd have to add a tracking plugin to the server which sends the needed data to the log.

Edit: And IIRC there's a limit on how much skill you gain and/or loose per kill. E.g. it doesn't matter if the player is place 200 or 2000 if he kills Mini.

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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 17:00 
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I know that Psychostats analyzes the logs and that points themselves aren't in the logs but all the actions you get points for are there as far as I can see (captures, assists, headshots, backstabs, kills etc. - you even get bonus points and awards in Psychostats for them) so it's just a matter of assigning them the same value that TF2 does, et voila.

And there's nothing wrong with decimal places - just multiply the result by some arbitrary value (e.g. 1000 or 10000) to make the skill look nice but this won't alter the relative ranks after all. ^^

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[SpA]Blackhawk
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 17:03 
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Feel free to check the source and/or ask on the official forum for help. I won't do this, because I have no time and with all the complaints on the skill stuff it doesn't make it a tastefull work. ;)

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[SpA]moPP
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 17:52 
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Looks like DR is fixed now!
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sebas
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 18:00 
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@Lim-Dul
Bonus points aren't shown in the logs afaik. A scout killing a medic with uber ready, or the 600 HP Healed point that the medic gets. Or the inv point. :)

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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 14 Jul 2009, 23:15 
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Also ppm is silly, since its not a clear indication of skill either, since a spy camping spawn destroying teleporters might get a lot of points, but it isn't something which requires a lot of skill, where-as killing half their team in 30 seconds probably does, but you would have to have a way of seperating different ways and speeds of gaining points.

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[SpA]Blackhawk
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2009, 13:28 
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[SpA]moPP wrote:
Looks like DR is fixed now!
Ok... don't break it again! :ugly:

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[SpA]Tpyo
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2009, 13:48 
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One thing I found makes a HUUUUGE difference - the weapon you make the kill with (they have modifiers based on k/d for the weapon - so stickies only give you 50%, back burner 75% compared to e.g. flamethrower @ 100% points). Right now I think the ultimate point-whore item for a high-ranked player would be the jarate (because of it's primacy over even medics), beaten only by getting a new account, giving it to minimoose (so he begins unranked) and medic-ing him back to the top 10.

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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 15 Jul 2009, 19:20 
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[SpA]Tpyo wrote:
One thing I found makes a HUUUUGE difference - the weapon you make the kill with (they have modifiers based on k/d for the weapon - so stickies only give you 50%, back burner 75% compared to e.g. flamethrower @ 100% points). Right now I think the ultimate point-whore item for a high-ranked player would be the jarate (because of it's primacy over even medics), beaten only by getting a new account, giving it to minimoose (so he begins unranked) and medic-ing him back to the top 1.
Fixed :ugly:

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[SpA]Tpyo
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2009, 18:38 
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Fixed as in the jarate no- :shock: longer has primacy for the assist or you have a new account and require a medic?

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TheGreatEmu
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2009, 19:03 
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[SpA]Blackhawk wrote:
[SpA]moPP wrote:
Looks like DR is fixed now!
Ok... don't break it again! :ugly:
And this was the whole point of this thread.

Thank you :10
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