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dckjns
 Post subject: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 08:52 
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Those of you reading tf2 related forums and the like have most likely already seen it

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[SpA]Spikespiegel
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 09:30 
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Valve office meeting:
"How can we ruin TF2 even more?"

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[SpA]ArchLurker_Chad
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 12:25 
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Interesting.
Is this the 6v6 balancing I've heard about? Or will it be like any other patch?

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[SpA]Tpyo
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 13:40 
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If this was real, SPY + dead ringer + flame proof suit would be a ridiculously powerful stab/sap character. The engie tool is nice but with no item upgrade, you either run back to spawn for your normal wrench or just don't bother (unless playing full-on combat engie and spamming L1 guns). All in all these items are overpowered or mostly useless. The only balanced item I saw (a sidegrade) was the heavy gloves of running. A large damage penalty to offset the speed boost.

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[SpA]futari
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 15:57 
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Yeah, this is from the beta that's being tested for 6v6~
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[SpA]ArchLurker_Chad
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 17:39 
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I don't hang around on the official forums, but has Valve said anything about the 6v6 thingie? Will there be 2 versions of the game/servers? One public and one for the 6v6/competitives?
Sounds really weird if it's going to be two versions :S

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[SpA]futari
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 18:33 
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I'm not sure, but since it's being tested for 6v6.. (a lot of top teams are participating in the beta) I can imagine there will be a split or at the very least cvars to activate them on war servers :S
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[SpA]Minimoose!
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 18:53 
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Spikespiegel wrote:
Valve office meeting:
"How can we ruin TF2 even more?"
I would be surprised if they didn't have these off as default, they are being tested for 6v6 not public play.

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[SpA]Dekar
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 20:32 
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Heavy can drop his sandvich for teammates? :mrgreen:

The team overview on the top when you are dead looks nice, but seems to be made especially for 6vs6.
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[SpA]Relentless
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 20:45 
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I honestly doubt they make cvars for certain weapons. That is possibly the most stupid thing they could do.

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[SpA]Minimoose!
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 22:58 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
I honestly doubt they make cvars for certain weapons. That is possibly the most stupid thing they could do.
No, it would be more like a different game mode (6v6 game mode) rather than being able to turn certain parts of it on/off ;) Like the stats of the weapons you already have change when a server is running this game mode.

As you can see they are changing existing weapons, why would they change it for public play if it's already balanced in publics? They need to change them in 6v6 to get classes to be more useful in 6v6, not publics. Then again they might just release them as separate weapons to expand the available weapons, personally I wouldn't see the problem with this, and it's not 'game breaking' as spike said.

Then the new engi weapon might be introduced in the engi update anyway, since it's a pretty nice alternative wrench, and also that spy suit is shit so who cares, revolver/ambassador is something you will always need tbh.

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[SpA]Relentless
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 23:25 
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[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
As you can see they are changing existing weapons, why would they change it for public play if it's already balanced in publics?
If doesn't matter who they intend the weapons for - in the end everybody gets to use them. Unless they make some kind of sv_6vs6 cvar, which equals playing 2 different games, which is stupid.

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[SpA]ArchLurker_Chad
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2009, 23:28 
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Two different games would make me a bit sad :<
But time will tell how it turns out...

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[SpA]Minimoose!
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 00:56 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
[SpA]Minimoose! wrote:
As you can see they are changing existing weapons, why would they change it for public play if it's already balanced in publics?
If doesn't matter who they intend the weapons for - in the end everybody gets to use them. Unless they make some kind of sv_6vs6 cvar, which equals playing 2 different games, which is stupid.
It's not really two different games, just slightly different weapons, also the only weapons which would change would be for classes which aren't featured in 6v6 so much I guess. All of them are weapons that don't effect the game that much anyway and they effect classes which are included in public play rather than 6v6. So if anything it will bridge the gap between pub and 6v6 since the more pub classes will be viable in 6v6.

As I said though, i would be fine with the weapons being available to every game type if they pushed it in as more variety. Just saying that people go over the top when there are mods for competitive play, like it's going to make a massive rift between each player base, even if it's as simple as having 2 of the weapons with slightly different bonuses. I seriously don't see what the problem is with that.

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[SpA]ArchLurker_Chad
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2009, 08:32 
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I suppose there is no problem really. But I dislike the concept because of my personal views :/
It's a bit like Valve is agreeing that some classes are not properly balanced to cut it in 6v6, and then instead of balancing it globally they make 2 versions :s Would it brake the game if they made the changes globally, like Mini said, just more weapons?
I dunno, just makes me a bit sad :(

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Mint
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 07:14 
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there's a difference in WoW between competative play and lolimmanub play, so why not here?

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Marmelada
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 09:00 
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I doubt the beta will result in a separate game mode (6v6) with slightly different weapons, the new update shows this, the competitive community got more cvars and advanced multiplayer options but the new blut is for everyone.
The changes will affect everyone and some of the stuff the beta testers have come up with seems geared to public play like the spy suite.
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[SpA]Relentless
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 10:27 
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[SpA]Mint wrote:
there's a difference in WoW between competative play and lolimmanub play, so why not here?
Because WoW is shit?

Also, who the fuck plays WoW competitively?

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Marmelada
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 11:27 
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There was this sort of separation in Guild Wars as well, and guild wars is better competitively then wow but I still don't think we'll see this sort of thing in tf2.
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[SpA]Minimoose!
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 17:01 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
[SpA]Mint wrote:
there's a difference in WoW between competative play and lolimmanub play, so why not here?
Because WoW is shit?

Also, who the fuck plays WoW competitively?
How is that an arguement? Your main reason against 6v6 being slightly different to pub play is that it's shit, lolwut?

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Mint
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 17:30 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
[SpA]Mint wrote:
there's a difference in WoW between competative play and lolimmanub play, so why not here?
Because WoW is shit?

Also, who the fuck plays WoW competitively?
like it or not, the fact is that WoW is the most succesfull gamer per today and they've done an amazing job, it's the "standard" of MMO, and I think this is what Valve is trying to make out of TF2, but because 6v6 needs balance they have to make changes to it, so they remove all the "fun" items that never really was intended for any competative play, but rather adding to the chaos on the pubs.

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[SpA]Relentless
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 19:15 
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Slightly different is still different. It's just dumb to "force" people to play 2 different versions of the same game. Does the ruleset of Chess differ between a game against your buddy and in a tournament? No, you get the same pieces. Does the ruleset of soccer differ between 7th League in Austria and Champions League? No, in both 2 teams are trying to kick a ball in each others goal. So why should the available weapons on a public and in a league differ in TF2?

If the public and competitive "version" of WoW is different - I'm fine with it. But, is WoW actually an successful competitive game that is regularly played in tournaments? You know the answer.

And saying that Valve is trying to make WoW out of TF2 is a pretty stupid statement, since theyre two totally different genres.

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Mint
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 19:28 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
If the public and competitive "version" of WoW is different - I'm fine with it. But, is WoW actually an successful competitive game that is regularly played in tournaments? You know the answer.
uhm yes?, it has a quite larger playerbase than say TF2. the world cup was played in Cologne not long ago if I'm not wrong. anyways,

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[SpA]Blackhawk
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 19:55 
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Google:
wow tournaments => 19.000.000 hits
tf2 tournaments => 791.000 hits

:ugly:

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Marmelada
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 20:00 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
Does the ruleset of Chess differ between a game against your buddy and in a tournament?
Chess played in a tournament usually has some rules you won't always apply in a game against a friend. I like pointing out the little things.
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[SpA]Relentless
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 20:03 
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Well okay, maybe that was a little premature right now from me... I just cant stand when people dont care about a game being split into two parts, even if it's just a slight difference. It's not right.


Banana, I dont think using Google hits as reference isnt quite accurate - "Starcraft Tournament" only generates about 3,5 Mio hits although it's probably the most important competitive game ever created.

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[SpA]Relentless
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 20:07 
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Marmelada wrote:
[SpA]Relentless wrote:
Does the ruleset of Chess differ between a game against your buddy and in a tournament?
Chess played in a tournament usually has some rules you won't always apply in a game against a friend. I like pointing out the little things.
I was mainly talking about the pieces (can be considered "weapons") - you will always start with 8 pawns, 2 castles, 2 knights, 2 bishops, 1 queen and 1 king, whether youre playing at home or in at the world championships. I'm actually not familar with specific chess tournament rules but I'm pretty sure that this doesnt change ;P

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DrMcMoist
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 20:14 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
Banana, I dont think using Google hits as reference isnt quite accurate - "Starcraft Tournament" only generates about 3,5 Mio hits although it's probably the most important competitive game ever created.
This is the geekiest sentence I've read in quite some time.

So congrats.
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[SpA]Relentless
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 20:19 
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[SpA]DrMcMoist wrote:
[SpA]Relentless wrote:
Banana, I dont think using Google hits as reference isnt quite accurate - "Starcraft Tournament" only generates about 3,5 Mio hits although it's probably the most important competitive game ever created.
This is the geekiest sentence I've read in quite some time.
Explain.

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[SpA]Minimoose!
 Post subject: Re: Weapon changes
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2009, 20:38 
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I think you can tell from the prize money of WoW tournies compared to TF2.

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