and some more:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stij8sUy ... re=related[/youtube]

slides: http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/ ... n_2009.pdf

Uhm, the guy in the second video is bad. Watched 18 minutes of it and he has yet to really show me any science or fact, he only is saying that everything is being banned by politics and they have absolutely no science backing them up.

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Have you downloaded the pdf and watched all the slides during his talk? It's kinda important.

No I haven't. And too be honest I am not going to waste my time with this. The general concensus among scientists is that global warming is happening and that there is a threath. Of course stuff is being overpopularized, but isn't everything these days? Al Gore's movie is exxagerating (or however thats spelled) duh, tell me something new.

Regardless, wether global warming is a hoax or not. Its a good thing that this brings countries together to reduce polution and protect the worlds environment. Because after all, less shit being thrown in the sea, air, land makes for a better world.

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Hence your opinion on this. You should not blindly follow whats been said in the news. If you read up and check out these presentations you'll find that graph after graph, report after report has been created by data which has selectively been chosen, tampered with etc.

Also these so called "general consensus among scientists" is no more then a hardcore group of funded and tied by politics bunch of scientists. The media is selectively choosing out reports to publish, ignoring reports which counter those, because it's not spectacular enough until some sort of scandal comes out of it(like which is the case now due to the hacked mail servers reveling scientists actually talking about removing important data, tampering with data etc).

Kay i dont know nothing if it is true or not.
What i do know is that cleaning data is a normal step in science so that they did it is not that strange
What I do know, if only 10% of it is true then holland is under 5 meters of water.
Better spent some money now preventing it then wait for it to not be true.
And the oil WILL be running out in 10 years so we have to switch anyways. (peak oil...)

_________________
MOV AH, 02
INT 21

That's the issue, you know what you know because of the news and such. Take a hour or 2 and educate yourself!

Lord Monckton is not even a scientist himself. I watched his video and he sounds like a cherry picking right wing conservative.

Besides I have yet to read a paper that one can not criticize or point out faults and the way one measures data is the easiest way to go cry someone is doing it all wrong.

Oh and this is the last you will see of me in this thread. Because arguing on the internet is pointless in my opinion and I seriously cant be arsed to spend anymore time on this when it doesn't even interest me that much.

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Then why even bother to reply in the first case? You've obiousely haven't wachted the entire thing, includingthe documents supplied.

Have you actually read any other papers about climate change Saint?

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Great thing about science is the debate is never over facts, figures and ideas are always being challenged. Humanity is very good at reacting to change but stopping something that might be 30years in the future no one seems to care about. Why shouldn't we all be a bit less wasteful with things we use.

_________________
Don't worry I got some silicon carrots - [SpA]Bucky O'Hare

I actually have yes. I have watched several hours on presentations on the subject, including documents provided. And no, i am not knowledge enough to properly understand all documents on my own, but all the info gives enough to form a proper opinion on the matter. A opinion which believes the climate change is NOT being caused by CO2 emission, but by natrual fluctuations in the temperature patterns as it has always done in the past.

The name of the IPCC = International Panel for Climate Change already tells you what their mission is. So tbh you can't really believe anything they say about this topic, because it is bound to be biased.
I've read some studies that show that the IPCC has manipulated data and also only chosen data for their studies that show the upward trend in temperature they want to show. And conveniently all the original data has been destroyed, so that no other scientist can check their results.
As a scientist I can not understand how somebody purposefully destroys the original data he builds a study on and then still expects to be taken seriously by other scientists.

Of course global warming can be a problem for some areas in the future, but how much of it is caused by CO2 is still not proven. It seems that the variating energy output of the sun has a much greater effect than any of the greenhouse gases. The worst thing global warming could cause is, that the sea levels might rise. But there are studies that show that the speed at which it rises is greatly exaggerated by the IPCC.

So, as always, the only thing one can do is to be skeptical. Don't always believe what other people tell you, try to form you own opinion.

I do support the idea to lower the stuff we use and how we use it. For example clean energy. The reason WHY thought is very wrong.

As one of the speakers also mentions, we're spending 215 TRILLION dollars on fighting climate change! You can do MUCH better things with that money!

Calculated is if we'd all stop creating CO2, this includes even lighting a lighter, we would have a stunning effect of 0.11 degrees celcius lower temp. in 100 years!

The IPCC and other organisations like that are always going to use the worse case scenario figures then make predictions based on them. The key thing I think is the sustainability of how we currently live now without it having a massive effect on the future. We can't just ignore the possibility that people and industry might be the cause of this.

_________________
Don't worry I got some silicon carrots - [SpA]Bucky O'Hare

You can't ignore it no, but you shouldn't ignore it either when scientists prove that the data we're calculating with is fraud data and thus an incorrect conclusion.

The whole UEA email hacking timing was very close to the Copenhagen climate change discussions. Does make you wonder why all this lack of trust in scientists comes out so close to that?

_________________
Don't worry I got some silicon carrots - [SpA]Bucky O'Hare

It had started long before the mail hack. The mail hack is another confirmation.

Infact the research started nearly 30 years ago and was ignored untill now. Something had to trigger the chance so that the media would become intrested in the story (which the mailhack kind off did).

Did Co2 emissions cause the last Ice Age?

And if so, just how much Co2 were the Dinosaurs giving off?

they say cows give off a shitload of greenhouses gasses. so scale that up to a thing the size of a house, or so an voila, t-rex killed himsself with his own emissions!

_________________
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: true genius
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: doesn't make sense
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: till you're senseless

methane is worse than CO2, cows burp shitloads of methane.

_________________
a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Nope... that was Blue Sky Studios.

_________________
SaintK: I'm completely lost

Media hypes are fucked up yeah. There's probably a shit load of conflicts constricted with each other ending in getting a few dozen oligarchs even richer ( I strongly believe most to almost every of these issues are related with power/money)
It's never smart to just blindy believe, anything, you read in a newspaper, hear on the radio, read on the net or see it on the tele. Looking up more research, trying to find the original research information, statistics, discussions, etc. is always a good plan if you are that keen on stating your opinion about it.
I haven't read or followed much about this issue at matter, except the discussion around me and the stuff posted out here. I don't want to either. It starts already by the fact that oil sheiks and owners of multinationals who got big dealing with something connected to oil are holding back plans for cleaner and more fuel efficient cars for instance. This stuff and a shit load of other stuff pisses me off in such extent I'd like to work the faces of those motherfuckers with barbwired baseball bats, I don't know how I'd manage, but favorably a bat in each hand!
Regular tart folk media hyped moronic mass sheep news has this effect on me and that actually gives me a pretty good reason to find other ways to try and get to read the news in a manner that agrees with me.
What I did read out here is that saint is stating some pretty clear and agreeable facts.

In the end, we won't succeed in destroying the earth, we'll only destroy ourselves and even with the global consciousness we have built up by now, we still underestimate forces of nature. If you do believe we have a substantial influence in global warming, it wouldn't matter much in the end anyway, as nature will fuck us up in the end as well. History will repeat itself, there will come times that millions of ppl wil die because of some effect of nature like tsunamis, earth quakes, global warming, ruptures and shifts of tectonic plates, sudden or non sudden, etc.
What we are very much responsible for is the killings of billions! Animals AND humans. For the excessively use misuse and abuse of fossil fuels, the abuse of the small rudimentary carnivoristic tendencies left in humandkind, the pain we inflict on others around us, etc. We pretty much all know the saying "you shouldn't shit in your own nest" or in a different version of that saying. Well, humans are one of the few that not only shit in their own nest, they throw down their aids infected heroin needles for their children to step in!
What I am trying to say is that I do think there's a good probability all that co2 stuff is not causing our global warming in the end,there's no doubt nature will overrule us all at a certain point in time if we haven't fled the premises by then, but would it hurt us so much to be a bit more conscious and economical about our waste?
Next to that, on a more personal view, I think humans aren't all that good lifeforms anyway with all the useless killings and crap we pull on each other, dirty games that are played, us destroying billions of hectare of natural habitats for billions of other lifeforms. If we would die of our own hand, or even speeded up the inevitable, it suits us well and it'd be more then humankind could wish for, there wouldn't be a more lenient punishment for the so called "moral" crimes we've committed so far!
Mass diseases like AIDS or Cancer, hunger, tsunamis and all that stuff could well be nature's way of cleaning out the excess bagage it's carrying that is not agreeing well with earth, enforcing one of natures oldest powers, survival of the fittest!
The money that is being spent to try and save us from doom might as well be directed in trying to form a habitat outside of the safe surroundings of earth, trying to kill those oligarchs who are holding back plans for more fuel efficient and less harmful waste cars or launching selective diseases who'll clean out the less fitted in our societies so our resources won't die out so fast. Who's gonna tell me this is so much less moral or ethical oposed to what we're already doing now?
If you do like to think about yourself being a bit better then the so strong represented negative human traits I just depicted here, it wouldn't hurt you, the earth and every life form on earth too much if you'd stop and stand still once in a while to overthink your choices and there influences on a larger global scale. It wouldn't hurt the earth and every living being out there if you wouldn't eat 300 grams of meat every day, etc.
In the end, I will keep using my pressurized deodorant cans, I will chose to travel by bike but am happy to take a seat in my dads car if we have to travel to France, or get in Saint's car when we have to travel to a party, I will keep trying to be conscious about me consuming products that have cost other lifeforms there life, I will keep trying to help ppl and the more needy in our society to see if I can make a difference in making their lives a bit more suitable, agreeable and enjoyable, I will keep throwing away batteries and glass in the normal trash because I'm a lazy fuck and I will keep hoping others will differ in their beliefs and make up in the parts I lack in and vice versa.

_________________
M.A.S.K. , is the mighty power that can save the day