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EtsSpets
 Post subject: Is that from lag... ?
PostPosted: 02 Apr 2009, 23:49 
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Usually it happens when im sniping, i shoot the other sniper, i hear the "bang!" and i drop dead not the guy that i shot, and when the killcam zooms in theres usually a big blood stain between the eyes of the other sniper and the dude has full health and theres no medic in sight. So why is that ? Lag ?
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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 00:09 
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EtsSpets wrote:
Usually it happens when im sniping, i shoot the other sniper, i hear the "bang!" and i drop dead not the guy that i shot, and when the killcam zooms in theres usually a big blood stain between the eyes of the other sniper and the dude has full health and theres no medic in sight. So why is that ? Lag ?
I get that on any server, probably to do with the lag between the server updating your information with the information the other sniper sends.

E.g. The other sniper actually has clicked slightly before you hear the bang, so you click, it bangs but the server update with your information because it knows you are already dead. Thats what I would guess anyway.

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EtsSpets
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 12:03 
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Anything that rates can fix ?
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[SpA]SaintK
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 12:26 
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what rates u use?
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EtsSpets
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 15:11 
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67
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[SpA]cookye
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 15:20 
rate "30000"
cl_cmdrate "66"
cl_interp "0.02"
cl_lagcomp_errorcheck "0"
cl_lagcompensation "1"
cl_updaterate "66"
cl_smooth "0"
cl_smoothtime "0.01" // Smooth client's view after prediction error over this many seconds
cl_interp_threadmodeticks "0"
cl_pred_optimize "2" //Optimize for not copying data if didn't receive a network update (1), and also for not repredicting if there were no errors (2)
cl_interp_ratio "1"
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[SpA]SaintK
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 15:33 
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Advised rates are;

rate 50000
cl_cmdrate 67
cl_updaterate 67
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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 15:36 
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The Necromancer (4970)
And another smart-ass who adjusted the cl_interp_ratio and cl_interp...

I mean cookye.

Both values are too low! Either leave cl_interp_ratio at 2 and forget about cl_interp or set it to 1 and cl_interp to 0.33... Otherwise your cl_interp will be too low!

By the way - why set cl_smooth to 0?

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[SpA]cookye
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 15:48 
its just copypaste so i dno, ha!
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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 16:01 
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Exactly - don't copy and paste stuff unless you know what you're doing - it's almost like with the dreadful TF2 Tweaker.

Listen to SaintK and Valve - they know about networking. =)

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[SpA]cookye
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 16:02 
but it works
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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 16:11 
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So would rate 10000, cl_cmdrate 20, cl_updaterate 20, cl_interp 0.1, cl_interp_ratio 1 etc.

The question is whether other values wouldn't work BETTER and aren't, in fact, the correct ones - especially since networking variables don't have an immediately visible in-game effect.

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[SpA]cookye
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 16:14 
i dont trust you
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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 16:20 
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Like I said - then trust Saint and Valve.

And truth be told, when it comes to Valve game CVARs, configs and scripts ever since HL1/CS1 I'm quite the expert, if I dare say so myself, so you don't trust me at your own peril. :-P

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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 16:43 
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As long as cookye kills the enemies and saves my ass from the 2 enemy scouts that fight me first everytime, I dont care which rates he uses :mrgreen:

So should you tbh Lim ;P

Edit:
Quote:
cl_smooth "0"
cl_smoothtime "0.01" // Smooth client's view after prediction error over this many seconds
Indeed makes no sense :P Why would someone set a specific smoothtime if he sets smooth to 0? :P

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[SpA]Blackhawk
PostPosted: 03 Apr 2009, 17:12 
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Don't trust Saint! He brakes things and will brake your computer! :shock:

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staberas
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 15:46 
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http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki ... Networking
Quote:
Don't change console settings unless you are 100% sure what you are doing
Most "high-performance" setting cause exactly the opposite effect, if the server or network can't handle the load.
Don't turn off view interpolation and/or lag compensation
It will not improve movement or shooting precision.
Optimized setting for one client may not work for other clients
Do not just use settings from other clients without verifing them for your system.

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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 16:37 
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Yep, exactly. =)

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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 17:46 
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So you would want me to play with lowrates if I had a 16Mbit Connection (which I dont)?


Also:
Quote:
Listen to SaintK
Quote:
Don't change console settings unless you are 100% sure what you are doing bla bla
Quote:
Yep, exactly. =)
So if we dont know shit about networking but saint says to us "hey, use blabla" its ok although we still dont have a clue? (+"Optimized setting for one client may not work for other clients" & "Do not just use settings from other clients without verifing them for your system. ")

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[SpA]SaintK
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 17:48 
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TF2 will use around 25-30K/sec on full load. So a 1Mbit line should still do just fine with those rates.
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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 18:44 
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Saint didn't give you low rates - 50000 and update/cmdrate of 67 is far above the usual settings. The rates are, in this case, adjusted to our servers, so your connection pretty much doesn't matter unless you're on some kind of 33.6 Modem. :-D

Anyway - it's mostly the other settings you shouldn't mess around with like all the smoothing, lag compensation etc. - the theory that changing them to anything but the default settings will improve gameplay is an urban myth spread by "pr0gamers".
You just have to think how many "professional" Windows tweak sites advise to clean the Windows prefetch folder without even knowing what it does (luckily one of the Windows devs explained in-depth why you shouldn't do that).

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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 18:55 
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Quote:
Saint didn't give you low rates
But Valve did (default settings are 30 for cmdrate, 20 for updaterate and something < 10000 for rate).


And who the hell did talk about turning off lag compensation? I know thats stupid :P Theres a vid somewhere in the inet that shows the difference between lagcompensation on and off. I cba to search it though :P

Setting interp to 2/updaterate (or almost this value) is something I would recommend though. I played with a high interp for some time now (0.1 -> the oh so praised defaul setting :P) and it totally fucks up explosive weapons (for both playing with and against). It will seem like the rocket explodes and deals damage before hitting the model and that can really screw up dodging/predicting etc.

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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 19:09 
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Jesus Christ - do I have to explain the formula again? Your changing the values didn't do ANYTHING because the standard settings would have resulted in the same numbers you entered manually. If you noticed a difference then it's only because you changed cl_interp_ratio from 2 to 1 which would have fucked up cl_interp at its default value. :roll:

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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 19:23 
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cl_interp_ratio doesnt do anything except setting the minimal value for cl_interp (interp_ratio 1 makes the minimum 1/updaterate, interp_ratio 2 makes it 2/updaterate etc.). So if I set updaterate 66 and cl_interp 0.03 theres no difference between interp_ratio 1 and 2.

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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 19:26 
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Exactly! Hence you don't need to adjust both settings AT ALL. Just adjust your cl_cmdrate and cl_updaterate and the correct cl_interp value will be used automatically. -.-

http://forum.specialattack.net/viewtopi ... 953#p65953

In fact you're not even running at cl_interp 0.03 but 0.15 since 1/66 ~= 0.15. And 0.15 is too low, by the way - the best value for an updaterate of 66 would be ~= 0.3, which is the DEFAULT cl_interp_ratio of 2/66 with a cl_interp setting of 0.1, which doesn't matter anyway, since it's lower than 0.3.

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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 19:43 
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Quote:
Just adjust your cl_cmdrate and cl_updaterate and the correct cl_interp value will be used automatically.
netgraph tells me something else...

And you should really check your calculator man, 2/66 = 0.3???

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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 19:52 
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I don't use a calculator for that hence the error - 0.03 or 0.3 - doesn't matter - that's not the core of my message. ;-)

If you have cl_interp_ratio at the default 2 and cl_interp at the default 0.01 then it's ABSOLUTELY the same as if you had cl_interp_ratio at 1 and cl_interp at e.g. 0.03 - in both cases a value of ~0.03 will be used and there's no way around it because that's how the system works and all your subjective netgraph readings won't change that. ;-)

Also - what does the netgraph tell you about differences in cl_interp and cl_interp_ratio? That doesn't even have anything to do with the netgraph! These two things are lag compensation variables that affect the movement prediction on the client side (notice the cl_ prefix) but not the connection itself in any form!

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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2009, 20:01 
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netgraph tells me what interp I'm using in the end (eg interp 0.1 = lerp 100ms in netgraph).

And its the same in both cases ;P

Anyway, I dont care what you say tbh, MY settings work for ME and if they dont for anyone else or if anyone is not okay with that, thats not my problem then ;)

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