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[SpA]Voegelchen
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 12:04 
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Remember the scenario when a team hase 1 or 2 bad engies and only one good engi would be left with classlimit 3.
It happens quite more often than a good placed sentry farm with 4 or 5 engies.

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Sawyer
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 15:37 
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[SpA]SaintK wrote:
The classlimits are there to prevent the most extreme cases, not to limit stuff exactly to how some people think it should be limited to.
I want to quote this once again. Up to now, there haven't been that much problems with an engi limit of 5, so why change something that isn't necessary to change?
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[SpA]SaintK
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 15:39 
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Just for your info :24 the classlimits stay as they are now. They only get adjusted to a certain limit when a classpack is released (as is at the moment with the scout).
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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 15:48 
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Sawyer wrote:
[SpA]SaintK wrote:
The classlimits are there to prevent the most extreme cases, not to limit stuff exactly to how some people think it should be limited to.
I want to quote this once again. Up to now, there haven't been that much problems with an engi limit of 5, so why change something that isn't necessary to change?
Except for ppl camping stage 2 cp 2 on dustbowl with a zillion sentries which would need about 3 simultaneous demo-ubers and the rest of the team right after them. But hey, we all know thats no problem since its easy to arrange people on a public.


Oh wait...

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Sawyer
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 16:57 
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[SpA]Relentless wrote:
Sawyer wrote:

I want to quote this once again. Up to now, there haven't been that much problems with an engi limit of 5, so why change something that isn't necessary to change?
Except for ppl camping stage 2 cp 2 on dustbowl with a zillion sentries which would need about 3 simultaneous demo-ubers and the rest of the team right after them. But hey, we all know thats no problem since its easy to arrange people on a public.


Oh wait...
All due respect, but I think you're a bit exaggerating. Sure, the aforementioned control point is quite hard hard to capture, but usually there aren't more than three engis on RED anyway. And since there is a limited amount of suitable spots for your sentry, a demo can take out more than one in a single uber.

Everybody can imagine some nightmare scenario in which 5 engis erect an invincible sentry farm, but tbh, this doesn't happen very often.
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Bartg
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2009, 17:32 
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Most of the time maxengis 5 is ok, of course like Relentless said cp2 stage 2 dustbowl is nightmare with 5 enemy engineers, and its no suprise that about 90% of dustbowl stage 2 red team wins :(
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[SpA]Scatterbrain
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 16:11 
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I thought it would be better the bump this thread instead of making a new topic

quite often in small games - really small, 3vs3 or 4vs4 etc - then it's pretty lame if someone on the other team insists on playing engi and putting up a sentry. usually they take it down if someone complains (and they do complain 99% of the time), although it would be better if they couldn't build it in the first place.

basically, I'm asking if there's a way to set the engineer classlimit to 0 before X amount of people are playing on the server (say, more than 6 people)? it just means that small games are a bit more enjoyable, hopefully meaning people aren't leaving the server before it's even filled up

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[SpA]Repel
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 16:17 
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Yeah, engineers can be a pain when there's only a few people on the server but then there would likely be more complaints if people can't play engineer. :?
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[SpA]SaintK
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 16:21 
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I'll add the configs. Poke me if its not done by the end of the weekend.
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Crovax20
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 16:47 
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Saint could you please remove the scouts when the server has low pop as well? Its a lot of fun and then someone goes scout and ruins it all.

AKA

Don't limit the engineer on low pop. I love playing it on low pop, the only people that whine are the ones who are playing scout. Lets just remove engineers alltogether then huh. Thats like me saying please remove the demoman because he is unstoppable as engineer when the server pop is low.

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[SpA]Scatterbrain
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 16:52 
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[SpA]Crovax20 wrote:
Saint could you please remove the scouts when the server has low pop as well? Its a lot of fun and then someone goes scout and ruins it all.

AKA

Don't limit the engineer on low pop. I love playing it on low pop, the only people that whine are the ones who are playing scout. Lets just remove engineers alltogether then huh. Thats like me saying please remove the demoman because he is unstoppable as engineer when the server pop is low.
the difference is, people complain about engineer on low pop, but not about demoman, or scout, or anyone else.

and people = more than just the people playing scout, pretty much everyone finds it annoying

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Crovax20
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 17:55 
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I don't.

The only ones who complain about it are truly the scouts. Seriously on a low pop server its so easy to take an engi out. I prefer playing engineer on low pop, because I can spam my little level 1 sentries who are of no threath to anyone but scouts. I love playing engi because I can shotgun the shite out of people.

So not only will I get forced to adhere to classlimits (which are lenient enough atm), but now I won't even be able to play classes I like when the server is on lower population.

Anyone with a couple of braincells can pretty much ignore the engineer if the server is truly low pop. There is not a single place where the sentry can cover the whole bloody map. A soldier, demo, spy will make short work of a engi on low pop as well. Provided the player is not a tard its not hard to take down an engi or his sentry.

Anyhow, afaik class limits will stay as they are anyhow. Seeing Saint's original statement, classlimits stay as they are and only get adjusted when a classpack comes out.

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Last edited by Crovax20 on 09 Apr 2009, 17:58, edited 1 time in total.

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[SpA]Migu
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 17:58 
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[SpA]Crovax20 wrote:
I don't.

The only ones who complain about it are truly the scouts. Seriously on a low pop server its so easy to take an engi out. I prefer playing engineer on low pop, because I can spam my little level 1 sentries who are of no threath to anyone but scouts. I love playing engi because I can shotgun the shite out of people.

So not only will I get forced to adhere to classlimits (which are lenient enough atm), but now I won't even be able to play classes I like when the server is on lower population.

Anyone with a couple of braincells can pretty much ignore the engineer if the server is truly low pop. There is not a single place where the sentry can cover the whole bloody map. A soldier, demo, spy will make short work of a engi on low pop as well. Provided the player is not a tard its not hard to take down an engi or his sentry.
Agree with crovax here. I think engie should stay! :wink:

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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 18:11 
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Do it this way maybe?

low pop - general classlimit 1/2
mid pop - general classlimit 2/3
high pop - general classlimit 3/4

any overflow of any class is annoying and imbalances the game. Restricting one class wil imbalance the game even more as another class will get profit from it (limit engis -> scouts get stronger. limit scouts -> demos get stronger. limit demos -> engis get stronger etc.)

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Sawyer
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 18:53 
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Wait a second, I don't really see why it is that hard to take out a sentry, even if there are only 3 or 4 players on each team. I mean, in a lot of cases a demo can take them out, because most spots have leaks. For instance, the intel room on 2fort -> Demo steps in for half a second, fires one or two pipe grenades and steps out, before the turret can shoot him. You know this procedure, and it's still pretty effective on low pop. So, I don't really see, why there should be a general class restriction.

Also, overflows of a specific class lead to imbalance, yes, but to a negative one. Remember the scout update? Everyone was playing scout and the attacking team lost all the time, because 10 scouts aren't supposed to be the ones to take out a sentry nest. From my experience an overflow of any class always inevitably ended with losing.
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[SpA]Relentless
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 19:08 
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Sawyer wrote:
Wait a second, I don't really see why it is that hard to take out a sentry, even if there are only 3 or 4 players on each team. I mean, in a lot of cases a demo can take them out, because most spots have leaks. For instance, the intel room on 2fort -> Demo steps in for half a second, fires one or two pipe grenades and steps out, before the turret can shoot him. You know this procedure, and it's still pretty effective on low pop. So, I don't really see, why there should be a general class restriction.

Also, overflows of a specific class lead to imbalance, yes, but to a negative one. Remember the scout update? Everyone was playing scout and the attacking team lost all the time, because 10 scouts aren't supposed to be the ones to take out a sentry nest. From my experience an overflow of any class always inevitably ended with losing.
We steamrolled the Red Team on Gravel Pit today because we had 4 Medics, and they didnt get a singe cap when they attacked (~10v10) :ugly:

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[SpA]Scatterbrain
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 19:12 
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I'm not saying that the sentry is hard to take down - it's pretty easy most of the time - but the fact remains most people tend to complain if one is up; hence why I suggested it here

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Bartg
PostPosted: 09 Apr 2009, 20:25 
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People complain if there are to many useless engineers - typical situation is when you have 3 engineers and there is one lvl1 teleporter ( or no teleporter at all ) for example, or there are 3 sentries that doesnt cover each other.
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Amyl
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2009, 01:42 
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not when saint is palying
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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2009, 09:21 
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:|

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Amyl
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2009, 16:47 
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Image
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[SpA]Baal Kagan
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2009, 18:59 
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[SpA]Amyl wrote:
Image
that just made mah day! <3 XD

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[SpA]Minimoose!
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2009, 21:09 
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Awesome ;D

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[SpA]Tpyo
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2009, 13:47 
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I think 3 engies is too limiting but seeing as people are debating 3 or 5, anyone considered 4?

Re: 5 medics - makes sense to me. On attacking maps a rolling uber rush is a reasonable tactic to employ.

Re: 3 scouts - Since the scout update the scout has become way overpowered and I see a need for the restriction. It is almost a shame as prior to this, the scout-rush, though rarely successful against a prepared team was always amusing when you managed to pull it off. Ditto on pyro rushes.

5 demomen may be a bit much for some maps (I'm thinking Dustbowl 3 here) unless you're a real Spam-fan but not a problem on the more open maps.

5 spies is a bit much IMO - without a full update the modified super-easy-backstab (next time a spy sudden death round is on, you look how few of the kills are made by a normal stab) makes it overly easy to play them as combat characters at any kind of bottleneck in the map. 3 or 4 would be better. On the otherhand medic and engie are two of my (if not the) most played classes so I'm somewhat biased against spies in general.
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Bartg
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2009, 14:03 
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But know when
Code:
New SpA Points feature, class limiter immunity available from the menu
probably all Spa members have sniper immunity bought :mrgreen:
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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2009, 15:14 
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Uhm - AFAIK SpA members had immunity FOR FREE all the while. ^^

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Bartg
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2009, 15:21 
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They had, there were some issues with the plugin ( people were kicked out of class, when immune admin chose limited class ), but I guess it was fixed ;)
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[SpA]SaintK
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2009, 16:00 
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[SpA]Lim-Dul wrote:
Uhm - AFAIK SpA members had immunity FOR FREE all the while. ^^
Negative, this feature needs to be bought aswell by members!
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Lim-Dul
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2009, 16:46 
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Ah yes - you removed the immunity a while ago, didn't you?

I don't really care because I like the class limits but allowing people to circumvent them is a really good idea for SpA points. ^^

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[SpA]MrOrange
PostPosted: 28 Apr 2009, 18:03 
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And since us members don't have to spend precious points on reserverd slots or spray permits we can buy the class restriction immunity more quikly. So it's not as if we've been completely stripped of class restriction immunity benefits :wink: .

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