You only need 1 competent pyro + medic to completely ruin a demoman uber. Thats much more likely than to get a whole team to push at once.

It also depends what time of day you play, because as everyone should know, in the morning the random players are normally pretty incompetent

Anyway, i'm not finding that the engineer limit is the problem, its the class immunity which means we have 80% of the team as snipers, spies and engineers. Even with a demoman uber to take down the sentries a team mostly consisting of spies and snipers isn't going to be very effective (Unless the other team has the same problem, then the game just becomes silly ).

_________________
a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

See everyone here bitches that nobody ever comes along with the uber. I don't have that problem, when I hold my motivation speech ingame. Usually quite a few people will suddenly tag along, if only just to shut you up. Motivation speeches ftw.

Oh and yes, a team without demo's or soldiers and medics is destined to fail from the get go unless the skill difference is MASSIVE.

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

If you actually need to tell your teamates to help push it's not really going to happen. No matter how much I bitch and complain I never seem to get the support needed from people when pushing for a point.

_________________
Comfortably Numb

bitch and complain isn't motivating! Thats just throwing people off their playstyle so you can get easier kills.

You should motivate them!

_________________
Da boyz need themselves a Nob they do

Yup

_________________
"Destiny finds those who listen, fate finds the rest"

It's hard to motivate them when you feel like beating them over the head with the keyboard.

_________________
Comfortably Numb

Also most of them believe that since they bought class immunity they shouldn't actually have to play classes to help the team, so motivation won't help change 6 out of 8 spies and snipers to other classes (or even 2 out of .

_________________
a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

... just wait 1-2 weeks until all had there fun with the new stuff. Then you can bitch around again.
... uh.. what? Sorry... stopped reading your post somewhere.

_________________
SaintK: I'm completely lost

the scenario:

2nd stage of dustbowl, 2nd cap. defenders set up 5 - count em - 5 sentries all covering the last point

me, on attacking team along with 3 other similairly (and also better) skilled medics, ubercharging non-noob team members (demomen and pyros primarily) over and over, often all at the same time.

result: massive pushback from the sentries and possibly a pushback pyro (not that he would have made much difference) means we can't get anywhere near the shitting things, the demoman is launched into orbit so he can't co-ordinate his stickies properly, at most a dispenser or so goes down before the ubers run out and most medics and patients are killed. still enough sentries up to make capping an impossibility.

rinse and repeat for 30 minutes.

yes, I know it's dustbowl and the level is pretty crap in that respect (olol sentry spam), but I think the limit is definately needed.

_________________
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: true genius
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: doesn't make sense
ュ~ちゃんgamer.jp Pinky: till you're senseless

yea a well cordinated team of 5 engies as defending can hold back even the best team...but you need some coordination to pull it off.
with 4 engies it just takes 6 hit each to upgrade anything it to max...

_________________
"Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving."

The problem with dustbowl stage 2 is that most people try to jump down from the building's elevated platform and get thrown into orbit, in order to attack the sentries on last cap you need to come from the building's tunnel or from the left where the rock with the health pack is, the medics should go in front of their patients to take the knockback.

Yeah you can take the sentries down without an uber from the left, but no one ever tries to take control of it eventhough I always tell people to help me to do it

_________________
a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a bird in a pig

Most of the time people don't even try to take control of the area just outside the tunnels and prefer to camp the far right tunnel beside the sentry waiting on ubers that'll go nowhere because nobody else will push, and if they will they'll just get spammed in the small house coridor and die horribly.

_________________
Comfortably Numb